Redefining Wealth: A Certified Kingdom Advisor's Journey with Mike Perez

What does it really look like to let your faith shape your financial decisions? In this episode of First and Focused, we sit down with Mike Perez — Certified Kingdom Advisor, leader of Embassy Wealth Advisors in Columbus, OH, and author of Faith and Finances: Embracing Biblical Principles for Financial Success and Generosity.

With 35 years of experience in financial planning and advisory, Mike has helped countless families rethink their relationship with money — not just how they manage it, but how they give, build legacy, and steward it for God's purposes.

In this conversation, we cover:

• Why most people need coaching to truly integrate faith into financial decisions
• Mike's 2004 "finding God" moment and how it reshaped how he runs his business
• Redefining success: why true wealth isn't about material abundance
• Common beliefs about money that quietly contradict our faith
• Navigating the tension between faith and finance in a money-driven culture
• How Toastmasters helped Mike find his voice as a speaker
• The launch of Mike Perez Speaks and his "Finishing the Race Strong" message
• Where hope — and the biggest barriers — lie in the future of faith and finance
• Mike's love of cooking, his mentors, and practical advice for business owners wanting to integrate faith into their work

Whether you're a business owner, an advisor, or just someone trying to steward your finances with purpose, this episode will challenge how you think about money, generosity, and legacy.

Connect with Mike Perez: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-perez-b26b25318/

Book Mike to speak: https://mikeperezspeaks.com/

More about Embassy Wealth Advisors: https://www.ameripriseadvisors.com/team/embassy-wealth-advisors/

Connect with Mark: www.markgreaves.com

#FaithAndFinances #ChristianFinance #KingdomAdvisor #Stewardship #FirstAndFocused

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

In many ways, I don't see a lot of differences between people with faith in the more secular world. You've transitioned to something totally different about how do I actually make that money impact the world? Yeah. And how does that how do I become a vessel of what it is doing through me to go make a difference in in this life?

SPEAKER_02 0:18

But when I talk about integrating faith into your finances or living at the intersection of faith and finance, I think a lot of people are like, like, what are you talking about? A lot of the churches, they have just kind of shied away from the whole money thing because of fear that it could be a controversial topic.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

I know prayer matters, and I've got two guys here that are willing to step into whatever space I'm in and send one up for me. It's confirmation that God sees you. If I don't come to Christ in 04, none of this happens.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I don't even know where I would be. Welcome to First and Focused, the podcast where faith meets leadership. I know you're going to put me on the spot. I don't know what you're going to ask me to say. I'm Mark Greaves, and in each episode, I sit down with business and industry leaders who put God first in their work and stay focused on building his kingdom through their calling. I could sit here and talk with you all day. Keep up the great work, brother. Lord is using you powerfully. I love you. I love watching what Jesus is doing in your life. All right. Welcome to the First and Focus show where we interview leaders from various industries who are putting God first in all things, including their work, and also staying on mission and focused on building the kingdom through their callings. Today we are here with my good friend, Mr. Mike Perez. Mike, thanks for being here, buddy. Oh, I've been looking for forward to this for a long time. Yeah. So we talked a little bit last night on the phone. Yeah. This is basically just a conversation with friends. I mean, you've you've been somebody that I've come to know and respect and love. Um you've encouraged me and inspired me in a lot of different ways. Um and you've supported a lot of the things that that I'm doing, kingdom work, and I'm I'm glad to be a supporter of yours. And uh this is just gonna be a really cool conversation.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, this is uh I've known you what three years now? And uh it's been uh a nice uh journey getting to know you and uh being able to have a conversation like this. And I've watched other episodes of uh First and Focused and uh I'm almost pinching myself that I'm actually sitting in the seat today. Oh come on.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Well I've tried to have in in fairness, I've tried to have you on. Yeah. Uh you'll be somewhere around episode 30, probably. I don't know the exact number when it comes out, but uh uh you're definitely in like my top 10 trying to get guys on the show. You're not actually easy to wrangle.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah. Well we tried to, I think we tried to do it back in June, and I was on my way to Europe and uh Yeah, why don't you tell everybody what you were doing in Spain? Well, I I we start off in Spain and then uh we hit six countries in 16 days. But my 23-year-old uh Hispanic daughter uh was on the first leg of the trip with us, and she said, Dad, uh Bad Bunny is going to be in Madrid. And so, uh like many people, I had only seen him on the Super Bowl. Yeah and so I found myself one Sunday evening with 70,000 screaming crazy people at the bad bunny concert in Madrid, Spain.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Well, I remember I texted you, I was like, hey man, I gotta get you on the show. This is when we're recording, and you're like, I can't. I'm at I'm gonna be at the bad bunny concert in Spain. I was like, I could not have predicted that that's where you would have been. But yeah, um pretty sweet though.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

It was fascinating because one of the thoughts that I had was here's this guy. He's probably, you know, he's halfway decent-looking guy, probably an average singer, he doesn't dance, half the concert was done to a track, and yet he is drawn in this following. And I saw people at the end when he was like speaking to the people in Spanish, uh, I saw people like my daughter just like crying. And I just thought, wow, how amazing this guy has created. He did he did 10 sold-out shows in Madrid, 71,000 people a pop in the soccer stadium.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

I mean, how many people even live in Madrid? Like a lot of people were traveling in from out of town to see that out of town.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

This is so funny. My daughter's name is Lola. Yeah, there was a girl sitting next to her from Texas, was there by herself for her birthday. Her name was Lola.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

I mean, you just some of the stuff you can't make up, but um I was just like, hey, you know what? You're you're keeping yourself young. That's what you're doing. I'm trying. You're not dating yourself.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

I did get a little worried when the stadium started shaking. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yeah, just people dancing, a lot of music. Yes, yes. So cool, man. Yeah. Well, here let me let me hit your intro real quick before we get too far into it, uh, just so people know who you are. All right, Mike Perez, you are a certified kingdom advisor, leader of Embassy Wealth Advisors here in Columbus, Ohio. With 35 years of experience in financial planning and advisory, you've mentored and led countless families, not only in private wealth management, but also in their relationship with money as it pertains to giving, philanthropy, and legacy. You're the author of the book Faith and Finances, which I got this here with me today. Nice. Uh Faith and Finances, embracing biblical principles for financial success and generosity. In it, you discuss how wisdom from scripture informs every area of life, including our financial roadmap. You've partnered with organizations such as Generous Giving, facilitating their journey of generosity campaigns, local stewardship networks and churches, and you've participated in many local foundation efforts to fuel opportunities within local ministries and not profits. Most recently, you launched Mike Perez Speaks, focusing on stewardship, generosity, and your series on finishing the race strong. You're a husband of Linda, father, follower of Jesus, and of course, my good friend.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

That's it, man. So it's I I I was wondering what you were gonna come up with because I've seen the other some of the things that I've got to do. Yeah, I promise.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

That is all from my brain. But no, it's all of it's true, though. And I think you know, one of the coolest things that initially drew me to you is that you're a financial planner and advisor, which most of that is about wealth accumulation, at least traditionally. People think about how do I grow these accounts and make the number on the screen get bigger. You've transitioned to something totally different about how do I actually make that money impact the world. Yeah, and how does that how do I become a vessel of what it is doing through me to go make a difference in in this life? Which is has been inspiring. We're gonna get into some of that. Cool. I just gotta ask you the opening question so we don't forget it.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Um you had breakfast with one of our buddies, Jeff Broadnacks, yesterday. And uh which his podcast with you was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Well, you told me that you guys got inspired a little bit by Dr. Heller. Yes. Uh, who is if anybody doesn't know Duke, he was world-renowned dentist, invented dental implant surgery. He said, I'm in full-time ministry. I just happened to do it as a dentist.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Something that he does consistently inspired a story from yesterday morning. I just want you to tell it.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, yeah. Um, I I kind of teased you yesterday, but I didn't give you the details. And I actually called Dr. Heller on the way over here to tell him the story, and he was just going nuts, going, Praise God, praise God. Um, so Jeff Broadnacks, he and I have worked together for a number of years, and we hadn't had a breakfast in a long time. And then I had reached out to him after he had been on your podcast just to congratulate him on just a great podcast with you. And so we got together for breakfast at the first watch down in German Village. And so I got there before him. This young waiter or server comes up, guy named Ben, and um asked me if I want anything. And I said, Yeah, I'll have some coffee. I'm waiting on my friend. So Jeff shows up and um we order our food. And before our food comes, I don't know why I did this because I don't do it a lot, but I channeled Duke Heller and I said to the server Ben, I said, Ben, just like Duke, I said, My friend Jeff and I are getting ready to pray. Yep. Is there anything we can pray for you? And we didn't know what he would say. And he said, you know what? As a matter of fact, I'm getting ready to go into the final round of interviews for a teaching job, and I would appreciate some prayers around that. We said, Well, you got it. Yeah. So we get our food, we pray, I pray for Ben. Uh, about 10 minutes later, Brodnack says, watch this. And he goes, he says to Ben, he said, Can I get your or no, he said, can I give you my cell phone number? Because I want you to text me and let me know what the outcome is. So that if it's what you want, then we can praise God. And if it's not, if it doesn't happen, then I can keep praying for you. And Ben said, sure, you can have my cell phone number. So gave him the cell phone number. About 15 minutes go by. Ben comes walking over to the table with a smile on his face. He's like, Guys, you're not gonna believe what happened. He goes, I don't even have to go to the interviews. They just called and offered me the job. And we went, praise God. I jumped out of my seat, I gave Ben a big hug, and I was like, You gotta be kidding me. And it was all because of Duke Heller, you know, kind of channeling him because I've seen him do this exact thing. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And I probably need to do it more. Well, what's cool is uh you guys are just living in that moment totally, but you're bringing somebody else into it because I've you guys share faith.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

And you guys got history together and you're having some fun, but like bringing other people into the fold. Yeah. Did you find out like what Ben's faith walks like?

SPEAKER_02 9:19

I I can't say that we really got into that, but I'm assuming I'm assuming from the fact that he's like, yes, you can pray for me. He didn't really hesitate. I would assume that it's probably some part of his life.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Well, you never know what God's gonna do with that. You never know how the Holy Spirit's gonna make his way through that because I I've watched Duke do it countless times. Um I've watched Jeff do it, you know, several times. It's just kind of fun because I if you're timid and you don't really know what to do and you're awkward about it, it it's hard to ask somebody, hey, can we just pray for you out of the blue? But the waiter-waitress idea that's just they're already about to interact with you for the next 45 minutes. Yeah. They don't really have a choice.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Um, I've never seen anybody turn it down. But then if they don't know the Lord, they have to sit there and think about that. It's a seed that gets planted. That's who knows how long that takes to maybe germinate and grow, but it's a seed that's planted right then and there that someone's praying for me. Who are they praying to? Yeah. And then what do I think about that? Everybody has to make their own judgment call. Yeah. But then for the believer, a lot of times it's like, hey, I know prayer matters, and I've got two guys here that are willing to step into whatever space I'm in and send one up for me. It's confirmation that God sees you. But either way, the Holy Spirit's working.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

I mean, dude, good for you. Just letting it rip. So fun, man.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah. Well, it's it's interesting because uh the other thing I shared with you, you know, leading into today, that my you know, my father's in the hospital right now, and I'm dealing with that, and we got some uncertainty. And I told that I was with my mom and dad in the hospital last night, yeah, and it was late, and my dad had gone for a test, and he came back and and I said, I I had told, I told him I'm gonna tell you a story when you get back. And he actually said to me, Hey, what was that story? And so I told that story, and I was using it to inspire them to say, you know what, God does listen and God does answer prayers. Yeah. And so he's got us in this situation that we're in with my father. It's cool when you see one answered right away like that, though. Oh, it's in real time. I'm going, this is incre I mean, Jeff and I, now here's the crazy thing. Jeff and I both have the five-year journal because of Mark Greaves. Yeah. Okay. And we're both, I think this is gonna find its way into our journals today.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

100%, man. Well, what's cool is when you look back and you see you see God's faithfulness along your journey. Yeah. But it'll be fun to remember that. You know how many times I text people like, hey, just remember three years ago is the first time we've met. I think I've texted you that. Hey, yeah, just three years ago today is first time we've met. Yeah. Now look at what God's doing through this relationship. Yeah. Crazy. It's so cool. Yeah. Well, speaking of your dad, yeah. Um, I'd love for you to just comment on the the basically the thing that you told me in the lobby today, just the moment to moment, how we just miss the moment to moment and like stay in present. Because you don't know what God's got next. I mean, five days ago, your dad's doing a cannibal, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Yeah, I was telling you, I was telling you the story. My 85-year-old father, uh, I was not there, and my daughter was there at my sister's house on Friday, the holiday weekend, and she sent a picture of my mom and dad. He's 85, she's 86. They're sitting on the, you know, in the water side of the pool, looking, you know, looking cool and everything. And then my daughter says, Hey, uh, did you know that grandpa did a cannonball to get into the pool? And here we are five days later, and things are getting a little dicey for him. And so, and I heard somebody talk about this recently, like, don't miss the moments. I mean, we are moving at warp speed through this life, and it's like there are so many incredible moments. I think I told you yesterday uh when things got a little dicey um at the hospital. They had to they had to move him from Dublin Methodist over to uh Riverside. Um, but things got a little dicey, and all of a sudden, this this Asian woman showed up at the room and it said chaplain, and I had just kind of come into the conversation. I'm sitting there going, oh my gosh, is this like glassed rights? What's going on here? Yeah. And come to find out that my dad had requested somebody to come in and pray with him because I was not there yet. And I thought in that moment, because I was pretty emotional, like we need somebody else to do it. And I watched this woman, it had to be God working through her. She just like leaned down over him and got in his face, and I listened to her talk to him, and she just said some of the most beautiful things before she prayed for him. And the one thing that struck me is she said, Um, it's okay to be human. Just be human, right? And I saw her calm because I was holding my dad's hand on the other side, and he just calmed down. The crazy thing was, you know, my dad's father is from the Philippines, and so this woman was Asian, and my dad told me later, he said, Well, actually, I heard him tell the woman, but then we were talking about it later. He said that when he was looking at that woman's face, he saw his deceased father. And his deceased father said to him, I'm getting a little emotional. His his deceased father said to him, Son, it's going to be okay. And that like calmed him down, you know. So it's just amazing. And it was like those are moments. Like there's all this stuff that we do day in and day out. I won't even remember this stuff. But that moment, like, I will remember that for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah, it is just the comment about being human is interesting because that that is what we are, but a lot of times you feel like you got to be Superman in some of these scenarios, and it's like, no, it's okay to feel it. It's okay to it's okay to let your guard down a little bit, like you're going through it. Yeah. You know, you don't have it all under control all the time. And ultimately, we all as far as like our physical cells, we lose. You know, so it's like it's okay to let it go.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Well, I I actually, you know, like at 10 o'clock last night as I was getting ready to leave, I had my mom and like I'm the parent in the room now, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

And my my dad's sitting on the side of the bed and my mom's in the chair. And I literally said to them, I go, Dad, your wife over here of 66 years, she's trying to be a rock for you. Yeah. And I'm telling her that enough of that, right? Like we, as the woman said to you today, we just need to be human here. So if she needs to cry, okay, that's not a bad thing, right? Let's just be real here.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

And um, you know, hopefully they were listening to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Man, well, kudos to you for being a good son. And I've seen your parents, I volunteered with your parents. And they're they're in ridiculously good shape for being in their mid 80s. I mean, you'd never even know that. Yeah. I mean, they don't look it. Yeah. And they definitely don't act like it. I mean, doing a cannonball in the pool on the fourth of July weekend. That's yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

And I don't even know if we can say on this podcast what my dad said to you when we were volunteering.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, no, I wouldn't done. Well, you can, but it was actually it's a team. He was just being related to his years.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

He was being like 80 some year old Henri, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah, that was maybe we'll save it. This is uh this is a made for kids show. Yeah, yeah. So all right, well, I'm gonna uh pivot a little bit because I want to get it a little bit into this. The book Faith and Finances. I mean, you really you literally wrote the book. Yeah. Um, I've got a couple of things I want to start with, but before we get into it, uh, you've spent decades now, I mean 35 plus years in the finance space. Yeah. Do you feel like it's hard for people to integrate their faith in their finances and like how do you coach them through that?

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Um I'm not sure I've quite figured it all out. And I would say it's one of the hardest things to do. I don't know who said it. Maybe it was Billy Graham, but somebody said the last thing to come to the Lord is the checkbook or the wallet.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

And um one of the things that I struggle with, and this is kind of the the for lack of a better way of saying, this is the fight.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

In many ways, I don't see a lot of differences between people of faith and the more secular world when it comes to when it comes to the money and all of that. And sometimes I question, you know, when I talk about integrating faith into your finances or living at the intersection of faith and finance, um, I think a lot of people are like, like, what are you talking about? And I just don't think a lot of people have given it a lot of thought. And I think part of it is because I think a lot of the churches, um, no disrespect to the churches, but they have just kind of shied away from the whole money thing because of fear that it could be a controversial topic.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, I I think you call it out. I mean, I've got a spot of the I've read your book, obviously. Appreciate that. Um I read a lot of books. People probably like, do you really read all these books? I actually do. I love doing it. Um, so here's here I want to read this quote from the book because um and it it pertains to 2004, your finding God moment. Yeah, but there's not a lot of finance books that start out with this. This is right from your introduction. Yeah. Uh this is the first sentence really of the book. Uh in 2004, something amazing happened to me. I found God. After being baptized, I didn't just feel refreshed, I felt like a new person. But this change affected everything, including how I saw the connection between my faith and my wealth. I started wondering how can I be a good Christian and still be successful financially? I just think that that's a it's a powerful opening paragraph because um you didn't start with like, hey, here's the breakdown of how we're going to accumulate more, here's here's the return on investment we're gonna get out of all this stuff. You st you talk about something amazing happened to you. You found God, but then that challenged the way that you think about your profession. And how can you be a successful Christian in these ways? Yeah. What have you found? First off, I guess tell us how you found God.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Um so I mean I grew up in the Catholic Church, uh, like a lot of people. I when I came out of high school into college, I kind of walked away, never stopped believing in God. And then I got to, let me count the years here. I don't know, I got to about age 40. And through I had lunch with an old friend who then said, I got somebody I want to introduce you to. And it was Chris Watkins, who a lot of people know here in town. Uh and I was at a bot, I was at the Bob Evans over by Soyota Country Club, which is like a kid's swim thing now. And Chris literally just turned to me at the end of the breakfast and he said, If you'll come to my office every Friday morning for the next year, I'll share with you what I know and you can decide for yourself. So he invited me in and he just hit me at the right time because I was like, What have I got to lose? I didn't know it at the time, but he was taking me through a program from crew, okay, like a foundational type thing. And so I religiously, no pun intended, I started going to his office and it changed my life. It literally changed my life because it made sense to me. And then in the midst of that, we adopted our daughter. She was a baby from Guatemala, uh, through a chance meeting with somebody. We got introduced to a church, and then by May 16, 2004, my wife and I are like, I think we need to get baptized. And so we got baptized. I didn't What's interesting to me is like that's literally just the first step. Like you don't get baptized and like your life just explodes after that, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

It's a step, and it's and then you just keep start taking these baby steps. And so what's interesting to me is I surrendered my life to Christ in 2004, but it wasn't until two now, I'm already in the business. I'm in the business 12 years at that point, but it wasn't until 2008, and I can't remember if I have this in the book. I'm sitting in church on a Sunday morning, I got a guy named Barry Cameron from Texas that's the guest preacher, wrote a book called The ABC's of Financial Freedom, which I still have, and I'm sitting there kind of close to the stage, and I'm going, Oh my God. I I've never even thought about it like this.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

And so that was the start of, man, I I got to get this thing in alignment with what God's telling me to do. Once again, it's not like magic happened all of a sudden. It just became this process. And then 2015, I think you've heard me tell this story. 2015, Dwight Montgomery of National Christian Foundation, he he walked in. I had three business partners at the time. He walked into our office one day and he said, Guys, you need to get your butts down to the Kingdom Advisor Conference in Orlando. And he says, matter of fact, if you go down there and you don't like it, he said, I'll give you all your money back. And he was serious. And I was the only one of the four partners that went down there. And that was the start of literally changing my view of this from a professional perspective. In 2015.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

What's interesting is I love how you're outlining the process because I feel like there's a lot of you know folks that come to faith, they expect their entire world to dramatically change and everything to just kind of fall into alignment. All at once. Yeah. And it doesn't. I mean, yours has fallen into alignment now over 22 years. Doesn't seem like it's really fallen in any. It's just the process of going through and just continuing to mature in your walk and let the Holy Spirit continue to guide. And then taking the faithful steps. I mean, whether it was between 2004 coming to Christ, 2015, Dwight walks in and says that.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

It's a pretty nice little gap of time there. 11 years. And then maybe about 11, 12 years later, you're writing a book, Faith and Finances, and starting this finish the race strong journey and all the other things that have taken place, but it didn't come together all at once. You can't expect that to happen.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

But the thing is, and I think the reason I had that first in the book is if I don't come to Christ in 04, none of this happens.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I don't even know where I would be. It's true. It's it's interesting. I I just use I'm a big fan of Zig Ziglar, and I know he mentored uh our friend Duke Heller. Um I was saying to somebody, I I love his quotes. I was saying to somebody recently, um, you know, this is to me what the Christian walk is is like. Like it's you have to wake up every day and just start over.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

And it reminds me of a quote by by Zig Ziggler. He said, People say that motivation doesn't last. Neither does bathing. That's why we recommend it daily. Oh, that's good. Think about that. And so to me, that's the Christian walk is like I have to bathe daily. Yeah. And say, okay, how am I going to walk with the Lord today? And some days I'm really good at it. Like yesterday, I think I got a pretty good grade.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

But and then some days I'm just yucking up the joint, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:35

It's true. The daily walk, it's like a really, really tough thing to like understand and accept because you don't we don't want to. I want to be able to make a decision and then have it last.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

But the decision has to be made every time you you wake up. That's exactly right. It's so good, man. I got a bullet point that I want you to comment on from your book. So one of the books, this is a this is what entices readers to pick up the book. You know, when you're looking at the marketing material and like what it says online, it says learn to redefine success, understanding that true wealth lies not in material abundance, but in living a life aligned with the kingdom of God. So can you tell us what a typical version of success sounds like from somebody that's in your profession? And then maybe how you see it differently these days.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Well, I think it's I think success in our industry is pretty well documented. You know, it's we as I like to say, it's kind of from that parable of building the bigger barns, right? Like how much have you accumulated and that? Because I'm a simple guy, this is kind of what I've reduced things to. Um whenever I sign my books, I sign them all the same. I don't know how this came to me, but I sign them, I say, may you store your treasures in heaven, Matthew 620, best Mike Perez. Because to me, in the spirit of, you know, Stephen Covey used to talk about, begin with the end in mind, when it comes to our money, yeah, you need to take care of your families, you need to enjoy your life and all of that. But what is the end game? Well, if the end game is to store your treasure in heaven, well, then how do you get there? And the formula that I've come up with is there's only one basic way that you can get there, and that is in order to store your treasure in heaven, you have to work on heart change. And, you know, one of our favorite people is Courtney Markley, and she talks a lot about that. The world doesn't need any more information. We have plenty of information. We can get it right off of our phones. What we need is we need heart change.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

It's only through heart change that you will experience your version of radical generosity.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

And it's only through radical generosity that you will be able to store your treasure in heaven. You can't buy your way to storing your treasure. You can't, I there's nothing you can do other than through generosity. And I love the quote by Randy Alcorn. He said, God doesn't prosper us to raise our standard of living, he prospers us to raise our standard of giving.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

Now, I live a pretty nice life. You've been to my house. Um, I'm a very blessed man. But the one thing that is God is changing in me and has been changing in me over time is my radar works totally different now. Like I lead with generosity and material things, I mean, I, you know, I like nice things, but I am just not driven by them anymore. It seems like over time, God has just started to really take away my appetite, which is why I pulled up to the studio here in a 2015 car. My wife's like, why don't you get a new car? And I go, Because I don't care. Yeah. And this car does beautiful for me.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Why do I want to put time and energy and resources into figuring out which one and all that? Yeah, could they just come and they go? I mean, same thing. I feel I feel like once you're on this thought process and your heart does transform in these ways, yeah. The the material does lose its luster. It's not that having a nice thing is bad or and sometimes having a nice thing is fun. You know, it's kind of cool. It's like I'm there's nothing wrong with a nice thing. God made all this stuff. Yeah. But it it's no longer the pursuit that you're after. Yeah. Yeah. What you're pursuing is different. You mentioned radical generosity a lot.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

And there's a quote that I always love, so I want to throw it your way and just see how you think about this. But it was radical generosity is just normal Christianity. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

I I like that because I I think that's what we're called to do.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Right? It it says in Acts 20, 35, it is more blessed to give than receive. Well, why did God say that?

SPEAKER_03 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Because he knew that that's what would be best for us. So if I want the best that God has to offer me, I'm like, well, I'm going to lead with generosity.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

I feel like there's a lot of evidence to back that up because anybody I know who has decided to be generous in your heart, radical means something different to everybody. Yeah. Because it's just a perspective on like, what have I done before? Yes. And is this thing I'm about to do radical compared to that? It might not be ultimately radical compared to everything I have to offer. But what is it in comparison to my past experience? But when they do it, when the Holy Spirit's driving it and they do something that in their own experience is radical, a lot of times, like the way that they feel about it and the way that their heart gets connected to whatever that mission or cause was or the person that it influenced, it just completely changes the way that you look at the world. It's so it's uh but normal Christianity should be radically generous if we're actually following the words of Christ and the Word. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Dude, yeah. So much written about generosity, and and I I think a word that I like is I like the word invitation, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Like we just gotta can when I say we, I'm talking about people like you and I. We have got to continue to invite people in. People are waiting to be invited in. They just don't, they just don't know how to get started. And something I've learned from you, by the way, my wife and I were like, we're we go down to the bridge ministry all the time. And my like my wife's a rock star there. Like these guys come up to her. Oh, yeah. And that all came from tithe and you and everything. And I remember you saying something because I've quoted you many times, that you said, if you want to show people Jesus, just invite them in. Just say, hey, we're gonna go serve at the bridge ministry and why don't you come with me? And it's not, you know, we're not talking the Bible and we're not having quite you know conversations about faith. I mean, it could come up, yeah, but we're just showing them what Jesus looks like. And to me, that is like the coolest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah, there's there's something different about the action of following Jesus versus like telling them the information about him. It's like you want to go see him in action, let's just go.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

And you could go experience what it's like to serve and just watch him work through us, and he's working through the person, whether they're a believer or not. That love is coming out, and they get to experience what the love of Christ looks like in in real time.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Um I want to ask this question to you because I feel like America is specifically like a big battleground for for this. This spiritual battle over um, you know, when Jesus says it's easier for a rich man to go through the the eye of the needle than or a camel to go through the eye of needle than for a rich man to go to heaven. I feel like in America today, um like the upper echelon with the inflation that's taking place and app asset prices going up, and you live in this world, yeah, the wealthy are experiencing wealth that they haven't ever before, maybe beyond their wildest dreams, just with asset inflation.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Um but that necessarily hasn't transferred into generosity. Right. And Courtney, you already mentioned her, she just did a whole quote her all the time on the idle treasure, which is I D L E, like it's sitting on the sidelines. There's a lot of there's a lot of treasure that could be deployed to go impact people for the kingdom. Why is it such a difficult thing, this spiritual battle that's being fought between wealth and investment into eternity and accumulating more wealth here for the temporary? Like how can we bridge this gap?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

I mean, that's that's the battle I'm in every day. I mean, that's the conversation I'm trying to change. I think I think there's always this danger that the more wealthy people become, or the more successful they become, the more they don't feel like they need the Lord, right? Um I'm always fascinated, like even when I go down to the bridge ministry, the people that I meet down there, I'm in awe of because they're so grateful. And there's people that are loving the Lord and everything. I mean, they have every reason to be mad at the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:44

They haven't been blessed with much, maybe they're homeless, but yet they have found a way to be grateful and to be leaning into the Lord. Um, like I said, when you're provided with a lot, it's easy to just say, I don't know, man, you know, that Jesus thing is okay, but I don't really need it. You know what I'm saying? You're already, you feel secure already. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And that's a very slippery slope uh because it's obviously said in the scripture. I I mean I go back to the parable of the the um the rich fool.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

He's like, I'll just build these bigger barns and I'm gonna sit back, I'm gonna, you know, just live the good life. And Jesus was like, You fool. Like it's all gonna it's all gonna be taken away from you. And so we have to stay humble, we have to stay connected to the Lord. Um and you know, it talks in the in the Bible about, you know, which master are you gonna serve? Are you gonna serve the master of money? Are you gonna serve the master of God? Yeah, you know, so I I think it's it's an even bigger battle here in the United States because of the amount of wealth that has been created.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

So this is going off script. I'm gonna grab my Bible here. It sits it sits here. I read this the other day. Going to church. I love it. That's right, man. We're in Psalm 39 today, is what we're gonna be in. I just want to get your perspective on this. Um here we go. Psalm 39, verse 4. Show me, Lord, my life's end and the number of my days. Let me know how fleeting my life is. You have made my days a mere hand breath. The span of my years is nothing before you. Here we go. Everyone is but a breath, even those who seem secure. Surely everyone goes around like a mere phantom. In vain they rush about heaping up wealth without knowing whose it will finally be. So my question to you is like when when you're advising clients and they're getting older in age and they've stored their wealth, knowing that we've got mere weeks, months, years to live. I mean, it 20 years is is fairly quick, you know? It's it's not a long time. Um how do you, as a kingdom advisor, how do you have different conversations of like, hey, your time here is passing away, it's short. It could be tomorrow, or it could be maybe a maximum of just 20, 30 years, but it's not forever, it's quick. How do you influence them to use what God's blessed them with to impact others and for the light of Christ?

SPEAKER_02 34:15

I one of the questions that I ask people, because I work with a lot of second half of life people, it's why we created Finish the Race Strong. Um, one of the questions I ask is, what haven't you done in this life that you want to get done before it's over? Right. I was reminded, being in Europe here recently, that international travel is not for the faint of heart. And I have these clients that they're like, Yeah, well, we're gonna get to this, we're gonna take that trip. And I was on that trip going, There's no way these people are coming on the trip. I mean, it's too, it's too grueling, it's too demanding, you know, that sort of thing. Um, I stole this from Ron Blue, and I have this in people's faces all the time. It's a little jingle, and it goes like this. Do you're giving while you're living so you're knowing where it's going? Hmm. Or do you're giving while Do you're giving while you're living so you're knowing where it's going? The other thing that I say, very seriously, I said, your money is going to be given away. The question is, will you be there?

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah, you'll be the one that does it.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah, it's going to be given away.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Do you want to be there? So once I know that there's a level of stability that, you know, is acceptable to the client, then I'm just going to keep leaning into um who can who can we bless? You know, is it your adult children? Is it organizations? It's interesting to me because I've been a little surprised by this. So many people have not given this much thought. They really haven't. They haven't given it much thought. And as we were alluding to earlier, our friend Courtney says that giving, if you compare it to like the Great Depression, it's less now than it was, you know, way back when. As a percentage. Yeah. And then the other thing that and I can speak very adamantly about these things because this is the light, this is where I am in the life cycle, right? And then the other thing that I talk about is is legacy. It's like I I would say this is a fact. Two-thirds of Americans have done no estate planning. Two-thirds. That's that's crazy. Which means they haven't probably talked about legacy. And then the other third, I'm finding because we do a lot of estate work, um, a lot of their stuff is not what they want it to be, right? And so I'm trying to have conversations with people that yes, we got to take care of the X's and O's. That's important, but let's talk about legacy. Like, what do you want to be remembered for?

SPEAKER_03 36:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Um, what will they say about you when you when you're gone? It's I I I hate to say this, but like I was in the pool swimming this morning, and I'm going through this with my dad, and I was literally rehearsing in my head that if I had to get up at his funeral, what would I say?

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

And I was like literally playing it out, you know, and you know, I was thinking about my father, and I was like, there were three things that jumped out. He was all about family, friends, and faith.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

That was it. Those three things. And he had he he did faith kind of in his own way, but God is very important to him. I know that.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah. I know that. I just have the question like, what do you what are you trying to get done here before you're out? Like you're we all know we're leaving. At least we're leaving this earthly body. Yeah. Um, what do you want to accomplish through it while it's here?

SPEAKER_02 37:33

Well, here's the crazy thing is, and and I think this is kind of universal. I'm like trying to lean into it. So many of us think we have so much time.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

I saw, I I my daughter lives in Erie, Pennsylvania, and so I was up, she got graduated with her master's here recently. And so my my wife was at a wedding in another state. So I went up to be with her, and I went to this church that she's going to right now in Erie, and the guy gave the most beautiful sermon. And he was talking about how, you know, in the scripture it talks about how we're just a vapor, right? Like we're here and then we're gone. Yeah. You know, and we think we have all this time. And his question was this, and it really struck me, he said, What are you gonna do with the vapor? What are you gonna do with the vapor?

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, and I was like, It's hard to even think about it because you try to grasp it and it's just yeah, so quick.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

It's then he had this, he had this long rope that was sitting in a like a bucket off to the side, and he had a piece of colored tape on the end of the rope. And he said, That tape on the end of the rope is your life right now.

SPEAKER_03 38:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

And he talked about that. And then he started pulling the rope out of the bucket and he kept pulling it and he pulling it, and he said, This is eternity. And one of the, you know, you know, I'm a man of quotes and anecdotes and all of that. Um, but one of my favorites is eternity is way too long to get it wrong.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Well, it's true. Let's just do this illustration because I told you we did this before. Yeah, we'll just do this with you. Let's do it just for the listeners. How old are you? How many years? Uh, I'll be 64 next month. All right, 64 times 52. You've lived 3,328 weeks. Okay. Wow. I feel like it sometimes. Well, I know that 80 years is 4,160 weeks. Okay. So let's subtract that. If you live to be 80, yeah, which is a couple years past uh male life expectancy, you got 832 weeks left in your body. So think about that. You got 832 Friday nights, you got 832 more Sunday services, yeah. You got 832 more Monday mornings to look at the week ahead and say, what am I gonna go do with this? Yeah, that ain't that it's not that much. So, like, I think people do fool themselves into thinking I've got all this time, I've got to store all this stuff for the future, I've got to take care of myself. And it's like, no, if you trust in the Lord to take care of you and He's provided, what impact are you gonna make through your resources to honor him with at first and then go get more people for Jesus?

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Like we are running out of time, time is of the essence. Yeah. And whether Jesus is coming back or whether you're going, like now, granted, you might live to be 90 and you might get some bonus years. Yeah, just as a rule of thumb. If a guy lives to be 80, you got 832 weeks, man. Yeah. I gotta get after it. I can't. Well, I think you are getting after it. All right, so let's let's pivot into this a little bit. So you've you've become uh a wonderful speaker. I mean, I've I've I've heard you speak, I've seen you on panels. Yeah, you're very concise, succinct, and you make a point really, really well. You went through Toastmasters for quite a long time.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

I was I'm a distinguished Toastmaster. Um this all started in 1985. A guy was I was a college student and working in nationwide insurance, and a guy named Paul, that's all I remember, he walked up to me one day and he said, I think you would be good in Toastmasters. I got introduced to the organization. I was in and out over the years, and then 2000 in the early 2000s, I got back in. I started competing in speech contests, and then in what changed my life was 2004, I got involved in leadership because it's a it's a speaking and leadership organization international. I became the district governor, which was five cities, had over 3,000 people, 42 people on my leadership team, all volunteer. And that's where I was really able to cut my teeth, became, as I said, the distinguished toastmaster. And so I trained myself for many, many years. I mean, it's it's um it's kind of that Picasso story. I was thinking about this recently. You ever heard the Picasso story where he's sitting, he's sitting at a sidewalk cafe in Europe. A woman comes up to him and she's like, Oh, I love you, I love you. She's like, Would you draw my picture? And he draws her picture and it takes him like 10 minutes. He's like, that'll be $30,000. She's like, What are you talking about? It took you 10 minutes. And he's like, No, it's taking me like four decades, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:53

To be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

To be able to do that, right? And my point is that like I spent three decades in the organization learning the craft. I'm not perfect at it. I'm a little rusty at times. You're pretty good at it. But my instincts, I've created these instincts, you know, because I was so immersed in it for so many years.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Well, you're using it now. And uh this plays into what we just talked about with time. Yeah. So finish the race strong, and you're taking this message on the road. I know you launched Mike Perez Speaks. So if you go to MikePerezSpeaks.com, I mean they can book you, they can see the things that you talk about, like where your passions are and what you go deliver these messages. But yeah, tell us about Finish the Race Strong because I think that this Toastmaster thing that you did back then, I I think it's just teeing you up for this next phase of life personally.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah. Yeah. Finish the race strong was um trying to narrow down this whole faith and finance message. And where I probably have most, I mean, I love mentoring younger guys, um, and that's fun to me, but my passion is walking alongside people who are on the same walk that I'm on.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

And I'm just all about, I mean, I look at a guy like Duke Heller, who's 88 years young, and I'm like, I want to be like Duke when I grow up. Um, but I just want to come alongside people and inspire them, encourage them, educate them to finish the race strong. And at its core, finish the race strong just gets to the essence of time, talent, and treasure. I mean, I've got the five pillars that kind of come back to that. Um, because here's been one of my observations. I see a lot of people get the money part right, they don't get the life part right. And then they're they're miserable. I mean, they're they they have a lot, they have no identity, they're not sure what their next move is, no one's inviting them in, um, and they're lost. And I've seen that happen a lot. Um, and I believe our best years can be in this last part of life. I truly believe that. I think American, like I was in Europe for 16 days, and there's a lot to like about what goes on over there and the way they they treat their elders. Like, I'll give you an example. Like we were on the subway going to the Bad Bunny concert, and there were young people letting my wife and I I have their seats on the subway, right? And I think here in American culture, I think sometimes we too readily put our older people out to pasture when we should like bringing that be bringing them in, inviting them in, saying, How can I learn from you? How can I extract wisdom from you? I think there's something to be said for that. Yeah, the golf courses become the new pasture.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah. It's like just send them out there. Yeah. Let them go whack that thing around for another 10 years and it's it does seem to be the case. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Well, I posted something recently, and this came from I actually heard this before. There's a guy named Jeff Henderson who I follow that I really like. But the premise of it was this, and I truly believe this is that when you have more to look back on in your life than you have to look forward to, it's over. And I see a lot of people, like I get together with people like my peers, and like all they want to talk about is the past. That's okay. But my wife and I, like, we're people that like, let's be forward-looking. Like, what's next? What can we make happen?

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah, still, still having like some zeal for life. Yes. It's like I've got things I still want to do. Like, I have ideas, there's stuff I want to accomplish. There's people that I'm pouring back into. Yes. I think that's extreme.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

My wife, this is crazy. Now, I I'm not going to say how old my wife is. Let's just say she's older than I am. Okay. And you know my wife, and she is like, people could never guess her age, but she's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

You would not.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

My wife is the board president of this national organization, and she can't get away because her best friend, who's the same age, um, is like the executive director, president, founder, whatever. And she won't let my wife leave because she's like, I need you, right? So they just had the annual board meeting over in New Jersey. And my wife comes home and she's like, uh, you're not going to believe this, but my friend, uh, she just offered me a big six-figure job to take on this thing. And we just bought a place down in Florida, you know, to spend some time down there. And I go, I go, well, how would that work? And she said, Well, I'd have to fly in every week and this and that. And I go, I don't, I don't know if that's going to work with our lifestyle. And I go, maybe it's not a you know an all or nothing. Maybe there's a way you could, but the fact that she's still going that way and still vibrant.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

It's a the the other thing I'm it keeps you alive though. It keeps you, it keeps you like your spark doesn't go away. Versus like if you if you're kind of just around taking up space, yeah, you kind of you kind of lose it. You guys aren't losing it. Like you're just it's like next phase. Yes. Yes. They don't look the same, but it's like, all right, hey, let's go actually make an impact on the world around us.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

That that's it, you hit it, you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't look the same, yeah, but your desire to still want to have impact, especially I I I think even if you're secular, you know, you may want to have impact, but man, when you're kingdom focused, you just feel like God, if you've given me the energy to get out of bed and you've given me the wherewithal in my mind, I owe it to you, Lord Jesus, to get out there and make something happen.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Well, I I totally agree with that because retirement's a pretty new invention, right? Like a hundred years ago, nobody was retiring. No. Ever, really, for the entirety of human history. Yeah. You know, it was like people were working and producing, and there was things that you needed to do. Now, granted, if you were unable, like physically unable, yeah, but usually it was your family that was you were falling back on to take care of you.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

I don't know what, like since like World War II, people have been like, all right, yeah, I got to work till I'm 60, and then I can stop.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

And then do nothing for 25 years and then kick the bucket. Like, I where did that come from?

SPEAKER_02 47:37

I it came out of the industrial revolution because what happened was they were trying to move the older workers along to bring in the younger workers. And so then they created these incentives, and then you know, they built this whole industry around that. And I just feel what here's another one of my quotes, but and a lot of this stuff, you know, I throw out on social media is we were not designed to play our lives away. Okay. I love to play, like I had fun in Europe, right? But while I was in Europe, guess what? I had my computer. Um, I was still connected, you know, because I that's just who I am. Um, but man, I had a lot of fun. But guess what? When I was done with that, like, all right, God, let's get back at it, let's go for it.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with like taking a break and taking some vacation and taking some time, but it's to regroup, to come back stronger for what's next, you know, to come back and refresh and recharge so that you can go be useful again. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

Well, I was talking about that, I wanted to share this with you today.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Um, because this was like a big aha. So I'm traveling through Europe and I and I knew that we're gonna have this conversation when I got back. And I had something that hit me, and I was like, I gotta, I gotta share this with Mark because it's gonna it it it connected to what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Here was my big aha. When when I spun off, so I I was a partner with three other guys. We had top five Americans practice here in Central Ohio. Three Christian guys, great guys. Through a series of events, I spun off in 2019. And what was interesting to me is when I spun off as a business guy, part of my thinking was you know, that line, niches are riches, right? I'm like, well, I'm gonna create a niche and I'm gonna go out and create this faith and finance, and like like the people are just gonna line up and they're gonna come do business with me, right? And it's gonna be great. That didn't happen, did it? It didn't happen. It didn't happen. And I know the feeling and I had been like beating my brain out. I go, okay. But my aha when I was traveling was I thought that was not you you were looking at it through this business prism, like you're gonna make more, you know. Now, God has been faithful. We've grown, everything is, you know, I'm eating fine, right? But the big aha was he used the business to introduce me to all these other kingdom things where I could have impact. Had I not spun off from my business partners, I wouldn't even be sitting here talking to you today.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

No, you wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

Yeah. And so it's weird to me how in our minds, especially as business people, because we're like type A, like we think it has to go a certain way, and then it doesn't, and you start to get frustrated. You're like, like, all right, God, what's going on? And then when you get away and you get some perspective, you go, Oh, that was it. That's why something else that I posted recently, I said, you change your pace. I got this from Mark Batterson. You change your uh pace, you change your place, you change your perspective. That's why you got to get away. Because if you stay in the throes of everything, you'll never be able to change your perspective. You can't see it.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah, it's the subjective versus the objective viewpoint. Yeah. So when you're looking at things objectively from bird's eye view, you have the benefit of all kinds of hindsight. You also have the benefit of just like taking yourself out of it for a second so you can see what's been moving around you for a little while. You can see God's fingerprints all over the place. Yes. When you're in the thick of it, you're in the fog of it. It's like it you just you can't see through it. It's like, all right, I just got next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing. It's just you have to get out. Was that in gradually then suddenly, that book?

SPEAKER_02 51:26

I just read that. No, that uh that that the I'm reading Whisper right now from I'm like on the Batterson. Oh, you're on the battery right now. I can't remember if it was Whisper or Gradually Then Suddenly, but I think I had shared with you before that I read gradually then suddenly, and Batterson just like spoke to me because there's so many things in my life right now that it's gradually, then suddenly. And I like I literally sit here today at almost 64 years of age, and I really believe my best days are ahead of me. Yeah, and God's going to do something unbelievable with me. I just don't know what it is, and but I'm I'm seeing these gradual moments like what happened yesterday in the restaurant. I walked in last night, my dad was getting, they were getting ready to take him down to nuclear medicine. My brother was there, my mother was there. I was gonna get my get my come and spell my brother. And I walked in and I was just, I don't know, something inside of me like I was on fire, and I was like, you know what? I can lay hands on my dad and I can provide healing because the same power that was used in the Bible, that power is still available, right? So I walked in and I and the and the guy was standing there and I said, Can I pray over my father right now? And I walked in, I put hands on him, and I just I went full evangelical. My mom and my brother probably like what the but I think these moments, like God is just keeps building me up. And I think there's gonna be a sudden moment where he's like, Okay, this is your next move. It is right.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

No, it's honestly just as you're sitting here saying that, it's so crazy. Um couple of days ago, I'm I'm praying and reading the Bible before day gets rolling, you know, before anything distracts me. And I'm reading in Exodus about God parting the seas and all the different things that he had just done through the plagues and delivering, you know, probably a million plus people out of out of uh slavery in Egypt. And I'm praying, I'm like, man, God, you can do that. And I know you can do it. I believe it. I to 100% believe that you did that, and you have done even crazier things. You rose Jesus from the dead, and then I'm like, the same power that rose Jesus from the dead now rests in me. And then I heard clear as day in my head, what have you been praying for? And I was like, oh dang it. Because I've been praying these little baby prayers. Yeah. Like what you just said is like, yeah, this same Holy Spirit power is available to all of us who believe, but we just pray these weak little baby prayers. And I'm like, I gotta, I gotta have my game here. If I really, if I really believe it. Um but the thing is, is it's gotta be God's will. So you have to align your heart with his will, and then he can move through you in tremendous ways. If it's like, hey God, will you use this amazing power to go get me what I want? That's where we miss the mark. It's like, how do we align our hearts with God's will and then just watch him move? Because he'll move through you. Yeah. And you get to go be a part of it. You get to be Moses holding the staff up over the water and watching the waves part. Yeah. But it wasn't because Moses had that idea. Yeah. You know, so it's just uh, man, I've really been challenged with that lately.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

That's good. I I was I a couple of things I said last night. I I'm always fascinated by the stuff that comes out of my mouth, but God said he would give us the words, right?

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Um, I said to my mom and dad as we were sitting there late last night, I said, Mom and dad, I said, I said, this is our our faith moment. Like if our faith is going to be legitimate, then that's all we have in this moment right now. That's all we have. And and so we have to lean into that. And then the other, I don't, where did I I heard this from uh God, I get so many quotes. It I I also said to them, I said, you know, everybody wants to see a miracle, uh, but nobody wants to be in a position where they need a miracle. That's true, right? Yep, you know, and to me that's a big part of the faith to say, you know what, God, those same miracles that I've been reading about, you can do them right now. I know you can.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's so cool to have this conversation with uh a finance guy. See, this is why I think people are missing it. Um the whole point of this show is to inspire others who just to show that you can you can literally integrate your faith in any profession. Yeah, in any vocation. God is ready and and willing to move through you because you have influence over people, and a lot of the time that you spend Monday through Friday awake is influencing them through the work that you do. It doesn't matter if it's money, it doesn't matter if it's lending. I've the guy that was in here uh before you, the last interview I did, runs a barber shop. I mean, it it literally does not matter.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

Um I mean, what we do, as you know, I mean, what we do is just like God has trained us to do what we do. I get more excited by the rel I and I I believe I'm very good at my craft, and I want to be very good at my craft. But to me, that's like table stakes, right? Like if you come to me, I hope you know what you're I hope you know what you're doing, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:05

You're out of business pretty quick.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Yeah. And I've been doing it a long time. But in this season of life, what I get more excited about is what is the kingdom impact that I could have. I was on I was on a call recently with it, it was a virtual call, and just uh a woman who has a husband and he's got some health issues and they're moving and it's got a lot going on, and I don't waste those opportunities. At the end of the call, I said, It seems to me that there's a lot of heaviness going on right now. Would you mind if I pray over that right now? And I used to be scared to death of that, and now I'm looking for every opportunity to make that happen.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yeah, no, I think it's inspiring. Yeah. So when you look out ahead, like at the future, like what's given you hope? Because this space has been one where, like we already said, it's a battleground, and there's not a lot of wealth advisors who are willing to step into it. And then there's just not as a percentage, there's not a lot of people who are thinking in this way. Yeah. What's given you hope though? If the tides turning at all, is there any momentum uh when it comes to people integrating faith and finance?

SPEAKER_02 57:10

I I think what gives me hope, and in the in the business, like a lot of businesses, it's going to continue to change cr in a crazy way because of AI, right? Um information's a commodity, crunching numbers is a commodity. I mean, you can do it anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

It's gonna be those soft skills that are gonna be needed because AI won't be able to replace those soft skills. Like AI couldn't have done some of the things that I experienced yesterday, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:40

No, and it can't it can't pray over you and bring peace to a situation. Yeah. It can bring data. Yeah. It can't bring peace.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Yeah. Um, but here's what encourages me. I think the Kingdom Advisor movement just keeps getting bigger and bigger. And I think God is gonna continue to bless that movement. Um, the other thing that is encouraging to me, and I know we've talked about this, is there's like revival going on. There is a reawakening. I think the younger generation is saying, in many ways, we've had enough of this nonsense. There's got to be something better out there. And so I think there's gonna be incredible opportunities for people to lean into some of these things that we're talking about. Um the older generations, like I mean, they they came from a different, I mean, if you go back to like a lot of older people, in spite of their faith, I mean, many of them came out of the Great Depression and came out of times that were maybe not as, you know, lucrative, right? And so in spite of their faith, they're still gonna worry about things that maybe they shouldn't worry about.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

Um what I I guess what I worry the most about is just, you know, our culture making money and material things and possessions such an idol, right? I mean, we're warned about that time and time again to not make those things our idol. And if they are, then we're taking our eyes off of the thing that we should be really focused on.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

You know, and I was I was I got my Bible here, and I was thinking this morning, I mean, there's a lot of good stuff in Matthew chapter six. And I think one of the reasons that people find the idea of living at the intersection of faith and finance, they find it kind of like, I'm not really sure about that, is I think there's something innate in all of us that we think God won't take care of our needs. Like I have to, I have to take control and I have to make sure that I'm you know secure in that. And what's interesting in Matthew chapter six, he says, I already know what your needs are. So if I already know what your needs are, like why are you worried? And then it goes on to say, Why are you worried about tomorrow? Today has enough worries, just worry about today.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Yeah. You know it's really interesting because it's uh it just takes you down to do I believe what it says in there or not? For the believer, um, you gotta take the whole thing. It's not like you can just take part of the course, it's like you gotta take the main course, you gotta take the side dishes, like the whole thing is truth, or really none of it's truth. So if we believe it, um, are we operating that way? And I think that's what's interesting about the way that you run your business and the way that you advise your clients is A, they're gonna be introduced to Jesus if they're not already, uh they're gonna have an opportunity to know him, maybe through an unlikely channel, you know, through their wealth advisory. Uh, but for the believer, they're gonna be given opportunities to say, I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is. Like this is this is actually what I believe, and do my actions reflect it. Yeah. Which is a really cool opportunity that they get to do when they're a part of your practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Yeah, it's a very, it's a very slow process. I mean, like one of the other things that we do is we screen all of our investments so that we don't, as we like to say, we don't profit from anything that doesn't contribute to human flourishing.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

I would like to say that everybody gets super excited about that, but the reality is they like a lot of people don't get that excited. Yeah, they're like, is the number going up on the screen or nothing? That's that's all they care about. Um, the other thing that's been interesting for me, um, and um our friend Courtney Markley at one point called me out on it. She said, dude, get off the fence. Uh and what she was talking about was before 2015, there was Mike Perez pre-2015 in this business.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

And then after 2015, I was becoming a new creation. And so, how do you bridge that gap? Because if I come on too strong with the pre-2015 crowd, they're gonna be like, Who are you? Like, what and I I actually had people do that. Like, like, what, like, what are you doing now? Like, what's this Jesus?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

Yeah, what changed?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Yeah, and then you know, on the other side, it's like, okay, both guns blazing. And so I talked to Courtney about that, about you know, kind of sitting on the fence, and I think she went full revelation on me and said, get off the get off the fence. Get off the fence, get off the fence. And that was a big aha for me. Now, as we said earlier, like I didn't jump off the fence the next day. I just started like taking little baby steps off the fence, and I'm still doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

That's okay though. You know, one step at a time, yeah, a little bit closer to Jesus every day. That's right. You're doing the right thing. All right. So uh if folks want to find you, whether it's for you know speaking or whether they're potentially interested in in using you for wealth management, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

Yeah, you can go to uh mikeperez speaks.com and that I keep that separate because that's like my speaking workshops, uh, those kinds of things. And then obviously I'm a partner with uh Embassy Wealth Advisors, so you can you know pull that up. Uh, we have five offices across the country. Obviously, I'm in the the Columbus office, uh, have a great team around me, and um, you know, we've got um a great succession plan. So because I realize like I I'm not gonna do this forever, and there's always the possibility that God could call me to something else, because like I said, I think there's something big coming down the pike. Um, so I'm very blessed that I have amazing people on our team. I think we have 25 to 30 people on our team.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

And uh the cool thing is, I don't know how we got here, but everybody on our team loves Jesus. Everybody's in different places in their walk. And so to be on a team, and I know you've got something very similar with Tide Lending, yeah, it's just so cool because you just know not that, you know, not that we don't have bumps in the road and all of that, but when commerheads prevail, we're gonna rely on God's word and just trying to be like Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

And common mission, yep, common central focus. Uh it there's nothing that unites a team, like the biggest thing in our lives. So that's right. Oh man, I I'm inspired by you all the time. And I think that you're one of the guys that I know who really is going for it. Yeah, mostly in all facets. I mean, you're not holding back. So thank you for doing what you do around town. Thank you for all the people that you influence. Um, and thank you for your friendship and influence on me.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

Yeah, and that well, thank you. I mean, we met three years ago, and we won't get into the story about how we met because it was kind of a fluke. Um, but I um I I treasure our relationship. I'm inspired by you. You're because you're younger, you're part of the group that just gives me so much hope for the future. Because if if the world is going to be in your hands and the people that are coming behind you that I'm meeting, I'm like, you know, everybody wants to badmouth the younger generation. I'm like, no, the generation we have now, they're rocking, man. And they're gonna well, I hang out with guys like you because to you, I'm the younger generation.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

It's uh that makes me feel good still. So I'm pumped. Yep. Well, thank you for being here, man. Great to be here. Great to be here. Yeah, and if you uh if you guys want access to uh previous episodes or newsletter and other information and resources, you can get it at markreaves.com. But thanks, Mike. Awesome, thank you.