Leading Across 7 Countries: Radical and Transformational Leadership with Paddy McBane

What does leadership development look like in Africa, South America, and beyond? Paddy McBane — founder of Marketplace Solutions and Lead Global Trainer for Transformational Leadership has led initiatives across 7 countries and 16 international trips, and he’s just getting started. With 20 years of business behind him, a 45-year marriage to Leslie, and a college degree in Music Performance (you read that right), Paddy brings wisdom, humor, and genuine faith to every conversation. If you’re a leader trying to figure out how your faith and your work actually belong together — this one’s for you.

Key Topics Covered

•         What’s drawing Paddy to international leadership development and how it started

•         Similarities and differences between leaders abroad and leaders in the U.S.

•         Stories of God’s provision on international trips

•         What it truly means to be “transformed” as a leader

•         How Paddy’s relationship with Jesus has changed him — and what’s still being refined

•         20 years of building Marketplace Solutions — biggest lessons learned

•         What he’d tell his 20-years-younger self

•         The secret to 45 years of strong marriage (and whether Leslie approves of all these trips)

•         His surprising college major: Music Performance

•         What to say to the leader who still keeps faith and work completely separate

Connect & Links

Marketplace Solutions: https://transformlead.com/marketplace-solutions/

Transformational Leadership (Ford Taylor): https://transformlead.com/

Connect with Mark Greaves: https://www.markgreaves.com

First and Focused on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@firstandfocused

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/first-focused/id1871452482

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

He said something to me, Mark, that um no one's ever said to me before. He said, uh Patty, um, when Westerners come here, uh, they preach at us. Uh you're the first leader that is actually training us how to make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

And that's the whole the moniker transformational leadership. I mean you don't transform something one and done.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

The time investment that's required for generational transformation is a lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Did you think that you'd be doing what you're doing on different continents? Like, was that ever part of the game plan?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

The woman who was sharing this said, So I got a vivid picture of you. Um, but do you have like some calling to Africa? I just went, wow, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Because a lot of times we confuse favor with our convenience and how we want things to go. Good reminder.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Favor has nothing to do with your convenience. Favor has nothing to do with your comfort, Patty. Favor has nothing to do with your entitlements.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Favor is about Welcome to First and Focus, the podcast where faith meets leadership. I know you're gonna put me on the spot. I don't know what you're gonna ask me to say. I'm Mark Greaves, and in each episode, I sit down with business and industry leaders who put God first in their work and stay focused on building his kingdom through their calling. I could sit here and and talk with you all day. Keep up the great work, brother. Lord is using you powerfully. I love you. I love watching what Jesus is doing in your life. All right, everyone. Welcome to the First and Focus show, where we interview leaders from various industries who are putting God first and pursuing building his kingdom through their calling. And today we are here with my good friend Patrick Patty McBain. Patty, thanks for coming, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Mark, thanks. Appreciate the opportunity. What a what a privilege to be here.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Uh what an honor to actually call you friend.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Um, I'll share this uh as just a affirmation. Uh when I think of you, I think of the word invest.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Vested in relationships. Um I'll take it. Yeah. You are you are definitely vested in the relationships you have. You've invested in me already in a wonderful, unique way.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

And thank you for well, vice versa, man. Yeah. And we're both tan today.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yeah, yeah. How about that? So little golf course tan, little maybe a little bit of Africa sun tan. Who knows? I was gonna say, yeah, we're gonna get into the Africa stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Uh mine's mine's South Carolina, and then at the memorial yesterday. So just soaking it up. Yeah. All right. Well, let me hit your intro, and then I want to get right into some of the some of the meat here quick. Sure. But uh did a little intro for you. Hopefully it's hopefully it's good. But when I research you online, this is what I come up with. All right. All right, Patty McMain, you are a full-time leadership development expert with decades of experience both domestically and internationally. You are the founder of Marketplace Solutions, an organization uniquely positioned at the center of work and faith, equipping leaders to become all that God has created them to be. You also serve as a lead trainer and director of global initiatives for transformational leadership, a leadership platform founded by your friend and leadership expert Ford Taylor. International development has been on the rise, and you've now led uh initiatives in seven countries across 16 trips. You just recently returned from a trip from Africa. Seems like you're not slowing down. Uh you're a husband celebrating nearly 45 years of marriage to Leslie, a father of two, grandfather five times over, and most importantly, a lover and follower of Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah, spot on. Pretty good little 30-second uh bio you formed for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

I may have to put that on on my website or something. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Hey, we I'll I'll send it to you. Right. All right, so let's let's just start here because there's a lot of ways that we could take this, but you just got back from Africa, um, which I know is is been near and dear to your heart here recently. It seems like there's a hunger for leadership development over there. Uh what are you experiencing over there? Just kind of give us the the rundown.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Yeah, I'll I'll go right to uh a heart moment that happened while I was there. Um I met uh a young Gen Z leader. Uh his name is Benny Henwalabonga. And he's a mouthful. Yeah, it's a mouthful. Uh Benny is an incredible 30-year-old leader of leaders. He is already raising up Gen Z leaders to transform spheres of influence. He took part in our TL summit in Nairobi. And then the next day he said, Will you come and just spend time with my team? Which I did, which was a huge honor and privilege because of the weight of what I felt in that room.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

What God was already doing with these young people. He said something to me, Mark, that um no one's ever said to me before. Uh but it's actually the why behind what I do internationally. He said, uh Patty, um when Westerners come here, and I know they come with uh good intentions and big hearts, uh they preach at us. Uh you're the first leader that is actually training us how to make a difference. You're preparing us for influence. And I was just like blown away by it was a it was an affirmation that while the work we've been doing for over 13 years is actually coming across in the way we want it to come across. Yeah. Not just this boy, I hope we're doing some good things. We got on an airplane, you know, came from America, yay, we're doing all these wonderful missional sort sort of oriented things. The reason why we're 13 years in is because this is not just missional, this is for us a lifetime investment.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah. You're transforming generation. I mean, that's the whole the moniker transformational leadership. Correct. You don't transform something one and done.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

One and done.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

It's impossible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

And we were even, I met with my team this morning, actually, and we were talking about this very thing. The time investment that's required for generational transformation is a lifetime.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

It's not just a one and done. It's not an event. While we do events and we um connect them with the the larger fabric of our objective strategies and other actions, at the end of the day, these are one of many seeds that we're planting and we're trying to hope that they make a difference.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

And when we start to see actual fruit, we're like, whoa, wow, God, look at you, man.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Take me to the beginning of this. Like, did you think that you'd be doing what you're doing on different continents? Like, was that ever part of the game plan pre-13 years ago? But give me the origin of this.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah. So I'm going to take you back to a uh couple's Bible study that Leslie and I were in with two other couples, and they invited another couple to come in one of the nights, and uh they had a really unique way in which to do what I call encouragement. Some people say prophetic words, yeah. But their encouragement was they would get a pad of paper and they would just pray and say, God, what do you have for Mark? Um, and or what do you have for Patrick and Leslie? And so then they'd write those thoughts down. Well, Becky, the woman who was sharing this, said, So I got a vivid picture of you. Um do you have like some calling to Africa? And I said, no. And by the way, this is like 1999. Not that I know of yet. Yeah, I said, no. Um she said, the picture was vivid. Uh you were standing under a shade tree, and you had dozens and dozens of black faces sitting at your feet, and they were just gleaning from the the wisdom and the things that you were sharing. And I just went, wow, interesting. So now remember, this was written down on a piece of paper.

SPEAKER_04 8:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

So that night I basically put that paper in the back of my Bible. Let's fast forward to 2013. 2013, I get a call from a man from Nigeria who's asking about whether or not we can come to Nigeria and bring transformational leadership there. Um, we actually meet him face to face two weeks later because he's in Cincinnati, Ohio, and we get to hear more of his heart. And uh afterwards, you know, because Ford and I both met Gideon. Uh Ford said, uh, what do you think? I go, what do you think? This is this is your gig, man. He goes, No. What do you think? And I I just sort of sat with that moment again. Well, two weeks after that, I meet a pastor from Rwanda here in Columbus, Ohio. And we share about what I do and what Marketplace Solutions is trying to accomplish, transformational leadership, and he says, We need this training in Rwanda today. I'm going, all right, wait a second. This is really weird almost, right?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, it's not coincidence. You're getting you're getting asked to go multiple times in a short window. Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

So I asked Pastor James how long he was going to be in Rwanda, and uh he said, I'll be here for another three weeks. And I said, I'd like to scholarship you to go through our transformational leadership training and then see if you believe it's contextually relevant for the Rwandan culture. Of course, you and I know that the Rwandan culture 31 years ago experienced a genocide that killed over a million people in less than six months.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

That was devastating and left a scar on this country in ways that you and I would have no clue around.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Pastor James lost multiple siblings in the genocide, and at the end of the transformational leadership training, he stands up with tears running down his face, and he says, This training has changed my life. I can now go back to Rwanda and bring reconciliation to my people. I was blown away, dude.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Because that's not what the training set out to do, right? Not necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

While there's tools that are conflict resolution and reconciliation based, I didn't think that it would have this type of context and and an impact. Well, anyhow, long story short, within three months I'm on an airplane going to Nigeria and Rwanda for the first time with another friend named Matt. And so on the plane, I pull out my Bible, and guess what comes out of the back of the Bible?

SPEAKER_01 11:34

That note. What was that feeling like? Did you have like your hair standing on its end?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

I I literally just like I broke down into tears. I said, What the heck is going on, man?

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

This basically was one of many sort of markers that said, Patty, this has nothing to do with you and everything to do with your willingness. Yeah. I'm doing something and will be doing something with a certain group of people that you interact with that will help them usher transformation into their communities and culture.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

I mean, did you just feel like the Holy Spirit like coming over you on that moment? I mean, God's God's planning this, his path, He's been He's been laying this out now. You said that prayer was in 1999.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah. And this is 2013.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah. And then now over the last 13 years, you've done how many trips there? I mean, I know you just got back a week ago. It's uh right. So it's actually happening. It's happening. It's really playing. Did that picture ever come to fruition where you're standing under a shade tree and all that? Is that is that typically how the trainings go, or is it different than that?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

It's it's quite different than that. But the the visual, if you will, intent of it was quite there. So b bizarre, if you will, but yet isn't this isn't this like God to do things that are way bigger than us, that are that are just beyond us, man.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. What are the needs that are there? Like when you go international, sure. Because there's not a lot of us that do. So a lot of us just figure that, hey, leadership transfers, it's the same, same principles, people want the same types of things from their leaders. Is it different in Africa than it is here, or does everything apply universally underneath your guys' training?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah, there's some universal application. And because all of the TL tools come from the word of God, even simple tools like affirmation, saying something positive about someone directly to them, yeah, which comes directly from the word of God. You know, John the Baptist, when he's baptizing under repentance, Jesus approaches him, the heavens open, the father speaks. This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

You know, if if affirmations are good enough for God, they must be really good for you and I.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

And that little sort of way of connecting relationally to people is a powerful marker in every culture. I don't care w what we we hear and are familiar with terms like shame-based cultures, or we're familiar with terms like hierarchical, patriarchal cultures that are hard to break those barriers of hierarchy, yeah. All of these tools help to create what I call a flattened organization. So when I say an organization in our context, it's anywhere where two or more people are in relationship with each other. Well, if you've got cultural hierarchy, including husbands hierarchical over wives, and it's not appropriate from the standpoint of empowerment and seeing people for who they were created to be, you've got a cultural barrier that needs to be shattered and broken and then rebuilt under the context of true biblical truth.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

And if that can happen, then you start to see what is a redemptive ripple effect of influence, even from one couple doing it differently. That may feel like an outlier, but if another couple joins that couple and they're doing it together, and then another couple joins that couple and they're doing it together, now you're starting to see what is called the three to five percent tipping point that can happen in any culture.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

That could be in a business culture, that can be in a church culture, that can be anywhere. And so one of the things that makes transformational leadership so relevant is the fact that they can see the simplicity of it.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

And then they can see what it looks like to just do one incremental thing that would move them towards a different vision.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

A better vision.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Just for context for the listeners, too, can you give us like a three to five minute pitch on like what is transformational leadership and how is it different than other leadership development platforms?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, sure. Uh so founded by my my dear friend uh Ford Taylor uh over 25 years ago, you know, God just basically gave him a business download. The business download um not only was a framework beginning to end of creating and establishing vision on the front end, safety and trust as a foundation for building that strength of relationship, and then connectivity and cohesiveness that's necessary for individuals and teams to actually grow together. What does it look like to be functionally responsible? What is my role in my organization? And then how do we actually do it in a way that we can have fun, continue to build the strength of relationship, and get things done in a way that creates continuous improvement? So if I were to give you three words that would give you some context here, leadership. For us, leadership is influence.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Transformation. The heart of transformation is formation.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

We are always becoming.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

We are always becoming. Um and then transformational leadership. When one is willing to lay down their life for those they lead or influence, that becomes the distinction of what does it look like? Because we've got a role model in Jesus that said, I willingly, no one takes my life, he says. I lay my life down. Willingly. This term for me has been absolutely personally transformational because it has pushed me and put a mirror in front of me again and again and again over the last 18 years since TL became a part of how I was gonna lead and prepare others to make a difference in the world.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah, the word willing is an interesting word, isn't it? Because it's like, am I willing to lead? I think a lot of people want to be in charge and they want the power or the rank and status that comes with being in charge, but leadership is a very different thing. It's not being in charge, it's being willing to lay your life down or sacrifice and pick up the crosses that are in front of you. That's a much more difficult task. Um it's very, very hard. How how do you go about making it sink in?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Well, I think transparency has to be at the heart of it. Um we don't go in there as experts, we go in there as uh individuals who uh uh broken pieces in our lives.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

I've got a lot of those uh Mark. Yeah um someone who has been absolutely profoundly changed by the grace of God.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah. Oh no, that wasn't always like when you first started with with TL. What was your faith like at that time? And then maybe tell us how it's grown.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's really grown uh because uh again, I put myself kinda at that place where um my own story uh became a a part of my healing.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

You know, um we all have story. And one of the hard things to do is believe that by excavating that story and putting it in out there so that we can get in in the context of James, actually get prayer.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

You know, it's like, okay, this is where I I totally messed up for me. It was a combination of huge anger issues growing up with an alcoholic father, uh being on the wrong end of his emotional anger and outburst, seeing conflict as a norm in my home.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Literally the the conflict environment for me caused me to just push down, push down, push down, waiting for uh 35 years to hear an affirmation from my from my own father.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Um, all these became things that were deeply embedded and a part of who I was, and yet in many ways still not reconciled to all these promises that Jesus says are ours. Yeah. And you know, we we come into, for instance, I was 19 years old when Leslie and I got married, and all that came into our marriage. Well, our first seven years were hell on earth.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

And I made it hell on earth.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

I was the problem. I was the one who kept on getting in the way with my own anger, with my own challenges, with almost destroying our marriage uh with an adulterous affair. Just yeah, dude, just blowing it, blowing it, blowing it. And one of the things that's challenging is the voice of condemnation that begins to speak over us in the midst of those failures. And what do we do with them if we don't actually have a tool or a resource or someone who's saying, Hey, Mark? Let's unpack this story. Let's let's let Jesus truly intersect the pain that exists in your life and in your heart right now and bring you into a place that He has actually created you to be.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Hence the formation and transformation. So, you know, you go back, you know, 18 years I've been developing myself and other leaders with these tools. Here I am. I'm in Kigali, Rwanda on this trip. I'm having visa challenges. They won't let me get on a plane. My day turns into 14 hours in that airport waiting for this to be resolved, including having to shell out 600 U.S. dollars. So here's the imperfection that still exists in Patty. I'm having one of those nice vertical conversations with God. And I'm I'm literally going, hey, how about some favor here, man? And your blood's probably getting hotter and hotter the longer the day goes.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

Right?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Oh, yeah. And it's crickets, dude. There's zero communication back to me from God. And and you know, the father and I get to ha have some often wonderful dialogue together, but this time he's not he's not even responding to the arrogance in this. I get into Uganda and uh God starts to speak to me. By the way, favor has nothing to do with your convenience. Favor has nothing to do with your comfort, Patty. Favor has nothing to do with your entitlements.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Favor is about me being glorified and seen before men.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

And what I'm willing to do through you to accomplish those two things. Yeah. That's right. That's a really good point that you make, though. Because a lot of times we confuse favor with our convenience and how we want things to go. Good reminder. I mean, I think we're all victim to that. For the leaders that are listening to this show right now, I'm sure everybody can point back to times in their life where they've felt a lack of God's presence due to a lack of convenience or a perceived hardship or not hearing from Him. An expectation we have of God, right? And often uh it's the very thing that ushers in the next big you know, enlightenment light bulb goes off because we see what he's doing.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

We just can't we forget the past ones and we don't apply those past things that God's done in our lives to the future situations we're in. Hundred percent for some reason we we lose that. It's crazy. I mean, you've seen some remarkable provision over there. Yes. So I think even though there's been difficulty, talk a little bit about that. How has God provided as you've embarked on some of these journeys into the unknown? Because I'm sure when you're going international and you're and you're starting and doing everything you've done, there's there's a lot of uncertainty.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

What's his provision been like in your life?

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah, I think uh provision comes uh in a couple different ways. Uh one is just the unique way in which God has created partnerships. Uh, a team that now has some U.S. friends and partners that are not only supporting and getting behind us financially and prayerfully, and even some individuals who have gone through the training, gotten certified as trainers, and are heading up the same work in different parts of the world, like Southeast Asia. And so partnerships have literally been the way in which God has shown again and again while you said yes to this vision, this vision is bigger than you. And so without those partnerships, absolutely impossible for us to make a difference or do or doing. One of the things that uh people say is, how'd you get there? Who are these people? And everything. Everything is relationship, relationship, relationship.

SPEAKER_04 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Um we are not hanging a shingle out. You should go through transformational leadership, it's what you need, blah, blah, blah, blah. Someone at some point sought us out and said, can you come? Or because they were in a room when we were there, they said, can you come back?

SPEAKER_04 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

And if their vision matches our vision, and the compatibility allows for us to create partners on the ground that can carry this further when we're not there, because if without that, this is kind of not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah, it kind of speeds up and then it dies if there's nothing to continue it on.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah. So that's how we look for, if you will, the sustainability factor.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Is who are the partners on the ground? Who are the who are the friends that not only get this, but have been almost looking for it in a way that they now can see this very clearly as a part of what God has put on their heart and their mission. And so with that, partnerships here domestically, partnerships there on the ground, creating an ecosystem for us to not only build this out, but create, if you will, now almost like a transformational leadership community.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

So one of the things that happened when we were in Nairobi, Kenya was we gathered a hundred leaders. Half the room was alumni.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

See, that's cool because they're everybody's speaking the same language then, too.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

That's correct.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah, everybody understands the concepts and like what you're going through because in any good development platform, there's like, you know, there's some bullets where people understand like these things are what transformational leadership's about, I'm sure. So once you're all speaking that same language, you can kind of like, hey, how's it apply in your world? How's it apply in my world? Help each other out.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

And and it it really goes the same here internally.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

If you are building a leader leadership culture here in a business, in an organization, that common language is essential.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Because if it's flavor of the month, which a lot of organizations do with their leadership, and there's nothing wrong with putting ideas and books in front of people, yeah. But common language says that means there's common tools.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Common tools means there's common practice.

SPEAKER_04 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Common practice means that eventually we are going to build a common culture that does things in an uncommon way.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Yeah, culture is a way of life. It's a way. So if you're not living it and breathing it, and if you don't use something over and over again and actually form the good habits and like create like the mesh and the framework of the foundation, you don't have a culture. You kind of have haphazard chaos, like just lumping in new stuff all the time. So it doesn't really feel very good.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

And I think that's one of the hardest things for a leader to do is to actually say, who who are we? And what what will we be doing consistently as a fabric in our organization?

SPEAKER_04 29:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Including the values. These are more than placards on the wall.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

These have to be embedded and measurable.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

And recognized and rewarded when done right. That's right. That's right. I think it's Aristotle that said it. It's we are what we repeatedly do. And it's like, what do we repeatedly do that defines us? It's not what we're we repeatedly think about or what we repeatedly intend or we repeatedly complain about. It's like, what actions are we actually putting to practice that we can create real habits and culture around? That's who we are. That's who we are. It's not what we say. Yeah, it's what we do. Yeah. That's really good. All right. So I have a curveball question on this. So having been internationally, and then looking at the framework of like what challenges and obstacles, but also opportunities exist here in the States, where is it easier? Like if you were talking to an American business or leader or team, there's the opportunity here, is it's are we taking it for granted? Is it simpler other places because there's less regulation and maybe less barriers? What does it look like?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah, I I I think because there are uh aspects, for instance, here in the in the West that seemingly come easier to us, like resources.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Um the material resources give us an illusion that we are ahead of the game.

SPEAKER_04 30:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

And uh the reality is without the spiritual fabric and thread of consistency, um, which often becomes a stumbling block here, yeah. Um we we can find ourselves in and out of uh efforts to create transformational cultures or families or whatever that might be, um we actually get frustrated and abandon what we said was important. Now they're in environments that are often less resourced, um if they get something that actually connects with a highly spiritual identified uh community or leader and it works, it's as if they grab it and and start to run with it. For them, the stumbling block and the challenge is how do we materially resource this movement?

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah. Do they so they look at their provision more from uh obviously a spiritual component? It's not their it's not my security, this isn't my stuff, it's not my own thing that I'm creating on my own. They see it as more of a direct line to I'm assuming are these are these Christians that are you're working with?

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Almost almost exclusively we're we're in Kenya, 85% identified as a Christian nation. Yeah, right. So yeah, there's a high spiritual sort of peace associated with it. Here's here's the challenge with that. They've heard things through a lens of church culture as opposed to empowered marketplace culture. So introducing this to them in a way that opens their eyes to entrepreneurial efforts is like often like eureka. They're like, man, I've heard that verse of scripture all my life, I've never seen it through this lens of leadership before.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah. So that's almost like a lot of the learning is like, hey, I can take this and I can also apply it into my work and pursuing business too. That's because for you and I that seems like common sense now. It's common sense. It's not common sense to everybody. It's not common sense to everybody. Wow, that's really interesting. Okay. Uh hold on. I gotta see where I want to take this because I know where I want to go. So Marketplace Solutions is celebrating 20 years this year.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah. You started in 06? Started in 2006.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Did you think you'd turn 20? Like when you first started it, what was the vision for what it was going to become?

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yeah, uh unique sort of uh a background uh that had business and vocational ministry and back in business. And when I was back in business, uh I I met Christian believer after believer in the in my workplace.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

And one of the things that that I noticed was that many of them, the majority of them, were awkward and and ill at ease with how to demonstrate or share their faith in a relational way that could make a difference in any role or responsibility. Yeah. And when I saw that, for me, the unique uh sort of picture and the frustration that there weren't many people 20 years ago who were trying to meet that need because it was outside of the four walls of the local church. Sure. Um was where the whole vision was birthed.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

And so, and you you're still ripe for the picking on that one because there's still lots of people who feel very awkward sharing their faith or integrating it in with their work for sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

So the whole thing was around equipping, connecting, and mobilizing Christian leaders to transform their spheres of influence wherever they were.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

And so my dear friend, who is still a part of my leadership team on Marketplace Solutions, Eugene Calabra was the president and CEO of GBS Corp. They have headquarters in uh North Canton, but they also had headquarters in Youngstown, Ohio, where we were living at the time. And uh Eugene said, start with me. I go, what do you mean? Dude, just bring it in and start with my senior management team. I go, I haven't built anything yet. He said, Well then get busy. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

So what a good lesson that is to have just one good connection that is willing to like let something get started. He hasn't he had no idea the seed that was being planted in your life at that point. That's right. What if you could go back to that version of you 20 years ago? What advice would you give yourself starting that thing? Like what big changes would you make? Or just from a mental standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Yeah, I I I think if I go back to Patty 20 years ago, um uh I'd say get ready to be surprised by God's grace and goodness. Number one. Number two, your perseverance will be the most important value or attribute that you demonstrate over these 20 years. And number three, surround yourself with people who are willing to speak into your life, add value to the vision, and make this flourish in a way that you can't do on your own.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yeah, that's really good. Is there any tactical like business stuff that you're like, man, I didn't know what I was doing with that? Like I was way out over my skis. Like what are some of those stories that you could maybe encourage a younger leader who's maybe getting started now?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think part of it is, you know, obviously, you know, anything entrepreneurial needs some seed money.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Uh the ability to not only own your vision, but then be prepared to articulate your vision in a way that others can buy into it, like my friend Eugene.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Um, I wonder how many other Eugenes were actually there for me 20 years ago that I actually bypassed.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

That would be a sort of a retrospective look.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Was that just because you didn't know how to ask or didn't know that you should? Like what what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Yeah, it was an awkwardness with the ask. It was an awkwardness of how do I communicate this? I've never had this much clarity on something, if you will, a calling that God wants me to take forward. How do I communicate it in a way that even makes sense to someone? I don't even know anyone else doing this. Yeah. Right? And so part of that was I think what made it challenging on the front end.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

But one of the things that I can definitely say is that the greatest champion in my corner was my wife, yeah, Leslie, was all in. She said, if this is what God has told you to do, just don't hold back. Go all in or don't go in at all.

SPEAKER_04 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

And she has all of these years been my greatest champion, my greatest advocate. The one who's saying, Wow, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Well, let's pivot. So you've been married now coming up on 45 years. 45 years. You don't really look old enough to be married 45 years. I think of like really old men when I think of that. I mean, how so you got married when you were a teenager? 19.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

How old was Leslie?

SPEAKER_01 38:48

She was 20 and a half.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Oh, so you married up. I'm married up, big guy. It was a good thing because I needed as much help as I could get.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, no, well, you definitely married up, you know, uh, not just in age, but also yeah. Yes. Liter literally.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Literally. She's a beautiful woman inside and out.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

That's pretty cool. All right, so we'll take us through it. Forty-five years of marriage. I know it hasn't always been easy, of course. Like anybody that's been married 45 years has probably gone through some stuff. What are the biggest lessons you've learned?

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Yeah. We we've uh learned that um the the greatest challenges of our lives, which have been pretty significant, uh mentioned you know, the adultery. Uh interestingly enough, we were halfway around the world living in working in northern India at an international school there. We couldn't get on an airplane and run home to mommy and daddy to fix our problems, and so we had to look each other in the eye and fix it and work through it. The fact that we have worked through challenge after challenge after challenge, including illnesses and major setbacks. A daughter who was attacked and raped during our college years. We've been through some adversity, man. Our family story is not without challenge.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

And uh what we've continually done is not only look to the Lord for for help in our time of need, but we've looked to each other and we've continually said I love you, I trust you. I mean your corner.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

And I'm glad you're in mine.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

And uh our marriage is uh based on the fact that, you know, in those early years, forty years ago is when that real trouble came. Uh it's a miracle, it's a testimony of God's faithfulness and and grace and goodness.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Uh that He not only restores things, but He causes all things to work together for the good.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Yeah, for sure, man. I mean, I I do think that there's there's wisdom in that. Anybody that goes through any length of time, you know, in a marriage, when you're literally connected to another person, is you're sharing a bed, you're sharing a home, you're sharing life, children, all those types of things. There's gonna be adversity. Absolutely. And uh it just doesn't get talked about a lot. A lot of people try to like push those things to the side or sweep them under the rug and present themselves as like having this perfect situation. So thank you for being willing to share those things because I think everybody's gone through it or is currently going through it. And there's something on the other side that's a deeper form of love and a deeper connection with your wife when you get through tough moments and you go through struggle together.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

So I mean, I'm only in it for 18 years right now with Danielle, but getting through some of the things that we've gone through as a couple, I I look at her and I love her more today than I ever have. And I think it'll when we hit 45 years, I'm sure it'll be even more.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

You bet.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

I don't know how, but I'm sure it will.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

It will. And that's what that's what's kind of amazing about a covenant relationship.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Is that you know, one of the things we talk about even in transformational leadership is building and teaching people how to build a covenant relationship. And it's through the simplicity of two questions. When we're together, how do we want to treat each other?

SPEAKER_04 42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Assuming we can agree on how we want to treat each other, what should we do when one of us fails? You know, do you know how many couples have never talked through that piece right there?

SPEAKER_04 42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

You know how many companies have never talked through that piece.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

And yet conflict shows up and then conflict is either addressed in a very inappropriate way, or it's not dealt with at all. Avoided. Avoided most of the time. Most of the time.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Until it just can't be anymore, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

And until we actually look at conflict as our friend and actually something that God uses to reveal where the real root and challenge might exist. We are actually gonna get better.

SPEAKER_04 43:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

And so we say simply set the stage for our success. Talk about the fact that conflict is real, it is gonna happen, create a success scenario of how you're gonna deal with it before it shows up so that when it does show up, everybody's actually looking at each other with a lot less pressure, yeah, with a lot less sort of all right. Mark just really disrespected me in that meeting. Now what am I supposed to do? Like I I revere that guy. I can't believe he did that. Well, if we don't have a I've never done that.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

I've never disrespected. I was uh yeah, my I've I've grown a lot as a leader, but I made some I've I've had my you know, my stupid moments in the past. Don't we all? Yeah. Don't we all?

unknown 44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

But no, the con you're right. I always heard the the term like have a lot of little fights, whether it's like a team within a business or whether it's your marriage, like conflict is okay, disagreements are okay. And like don't don't let it all just build until there's these massive explosions. I was blessed because Danielle is very good at that. She's very good at letting me know the little things. And so we don't really have big arguments. There's small disagreements, there may be like you know, little tiffs here and there, but those we don't really have big giant blow-ups because anything that is off comes to the surface and service.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

So for the most part, I think uh I've been blessed to be within teams that have been that way too.

unknown 44:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Where things don't just go on and persist for so long that there's massive explosions that can't be repaired. There's there's little things that go off, and then you understand, like, all right, there's things aren't on the same page here. We got to come to some sort of an agreement. And you've ever heard the term disagree and commit? Like, even if it doesn't come into this like perfect consensus, that's right, at least after it's flushed out, there still could be some disagreement, but people still commit to moving forward together. That's right. That's what you need. Yeah. So same thing in a in a marriage. It's not going to be kumbaya at the end of every disagreement, but you need two people willing to commit to continue forward together.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

That's it. Our our mantra is simple. Conflict is not bad.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Unresolved conflict is bad.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Yeah, that's that's good. It's very, very true. All right. So I haven't asked you this yet, but I I want to know when did you come to faith?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Yeah. I came to faith uh as that 19-year-old boy becoming a 19-year-old man that was going to be a 19-year-old husband and eventually a 19-year-old dad. So you didn't have it growing up? I did not. I did not have it growing up. We were what I call CE uh Christian family. Yeah. We went uh because it was socially convenient and expected. And so um Leslie grew up in a completely different sort of orientation. She had parents who were missionaries in Southeast Asia, um, grandparents who were church planters with the Christian Missionary Alliance, um, strong faith pedigree on her side, and then there's Patrick.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

What'd she see in you?

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Exactly, right? So we actually met at Youngstown State University. Okay. Uh it was my freshman year, her junior year. And as soon as I saw her, I was like, wow, I've got to figure out how to meet her.

SPEAKER_04 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

And uh long story short, we met, we were started dating, fell in love. We knew very quickly that this was more than just you know, just a college fling.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

This was almost like a God-ordained relationship.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Though I didn't necessarily use that language back then. And uh anyhow, she got pregnant and um my little utopia world burst.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Came crashing in on us. So we got married legally in her pastor's study within 10 days to two weeks. And then he said to us, he said, Look, why don't I take you guys through some marriage counseling so that you're at least getting started on some level footing.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

And then we'll do a public ceremony with your family and friends, basically announcing that you have recently married and this is just the celebration of that. And I said, Sure. Sounds good to me. Sounds good to me. So during one of those sessions, he he actually looked at me and he said, Patrick, can I ask you a question? I said, Yeah, sure. He said, If you were to die tonight, do you have any idea what would happen to you? I said, Yeah, I'd go straight to hell. And he looked at me and he said, Would you like to change that? And I started laughing at him. I said, Dude, you can't change this. I said, Too much damage done. Too much water under the bridge. He looked at me and he nodded and he said, You're right, I can't change anything. But I know someone who has and who wants to be in a relationship with you. And so that night I literally pushed all of my chips into the center of the table. And I went all in with God. And and Mark to this day I've never had an encounter like that with God. He literally invaded my life spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically. I I I felt like there was a physical weight lifted from my body. I I it was such a out-of-body experience, such an unusual encounter.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

And I'm just weeping openly. And I looked over and Leslie's weeping open openly, and I go, What is going on?

SPEAKER_04 49:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

I said, I've never been here before. She goes, You're born again.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Yeah. I was like, Yeah. You're like, that's what it feels like. So to not carry to not carry it all myself.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

And we never we were never intended to carry it.

SPEAKER_04 49:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

And God doesn't want us to carry it. And uh Leslie says this, she says, you know, the the weird thing about you, I grew up with it and heard these truths and questioned them and sort of said, hmm, I wouldn't wonder what uh if that, if I do that. Everything you've heard, you have put into practice immediately. I thought, wait a second, isn't that what every believer does? She goes, No.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Yeah. It's uh and once you do it, you want it for others. You do. The experience that's this experience I had. I was uh, you know, growing up with it became very familiar to me. And while it wasn't as radical of a transformation like you had, there was a transformation in my life where all of a sudden it did click into place. And I was like, What if what have I been doing? That's that's what I heard from God is what are you doing? And I was like, Yeah, what yeah, what am I doing? And um at that moment of transformation, it's like, well, I I can't keep this to myself. I can't just stay on that path anymore because I've when it when it transfers down to your heart and you can feel it, and it's not just in your head as something you've reasoned, but something that you felt. Felt all you want is other people to feel it. Feel it. Yeah. You no longer it's it's hard to look at people the same. And for those who it's still in their head, it's like, man, just if you would let it go and you would surrender it and you would see what Jesus really wants to move and do through you, it yeah, it's not always easy because it's you know, you're it's a cross sometimes, but it's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah, and I think because of that, for me, uh I have uh always oriented in terms of my evangelism around creating an encounter, yeah, but not trying to convince someone.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Well, I've been to a couple of your workshops, and that's what it is. But it's not um like for example, like the Bee Influence breakfast that you just hosted over Easter.

SPEAKER_04 51:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

What I love about the way that you guys lay it out, it it is it's personal for everyone in the room and everyone's interacting. It's not a speaker giving information. Yeah, it's the people in the room who are uncovering more about themselves. It's uh so there is a way to be transformed, but you're letting the Holy Spirit move around the room and uniquely do it for every individual that's at the session. It's really a beautiful thing how you guys have organized that.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yeah, and and and to me that's that's what I want. That's that's if you will, if I could do that, someone says, Hey, what's what's a day, what's a really good day like for you? Yeah, you know what a really good day like for me is is if I can create a moment like that for someone else.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Yeah. Yeah, there's not there's no better feeling. You can't replace that.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

I can't replace it because guess what? All I was was a conduit. I wasn't the heavy lifter.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah. Yeah, but God used you to create the encounter. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. Well, I got two more little small ones. First off, this is just a weird one. This is gonna change topics, but I looked at your bio and your major was music performance.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

What?

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah, what do you what do you play? I don't play anything. I used to sing. I used to be a Are you for real? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

So do you never did anything like that professionally?

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Um, I I Leslie and I did some duets. We used to sing weddings and stuff like that. Um uh during those days when we were embedded in uh the church where we were raising our girls, we did I led worship, uh stuff like that. But we and So you don't do it anymore? I don't do it anymore, man. You don't like play guitar or anything like that? Yeah, I don't don't play guitar. I've I've only only been a vocalist. And by the way, when I started to move towards this, my my dream, my vision was to be a nightclub singer. I wanted to be a Frank Sinatra. I wanted to be a I wanted to be a Michael Blue Blay. I did not have any designs on meeting my life partner and having an encounter with God. And so we think about okay, unredeemed Patty wants to be a nightclub singer, probably with a bourbon in his hand.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

100%.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

Yeah, you know, a crooner. A crooner, right? And God says, Yeah, I'm actually gonna take that and blow your mind with what you think is the path forward. So, yeah, that's that's where the whole music goes.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

So you're into all that stuff, Dean Dean Martin, Sinatra, and all those guys.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

I love music. You know, people talk about tank fillers. Yeah, music's a tank filler for me.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, same thing. Yeah, it's pretty cool. All right, final one is like you've been at the intersection, obviously, of faith and work for a long time. And the whole point of this show is to bring people on who have been pursuing that not just to glorify ourselves in here, but to help encourage others who are on the fence or who are right there where the Holy Spirit's been tugging on their heart and they want to integrate their faith more into their work, or they want to not just compartmentalize it to Sunday. What would you say to that person to encourage them?

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Yeah. Um, I think the first word that comes to my mind is invitation, just to invite God into your just your daily practices so that they move from just being ordinary to God showing up and maybe showing you something that you didn't plan or uh hadn't even thought of in a meeting prior to this moment, but because you created the invitation uh and said, Holy Spirit, I really want you to be, you know, my chief operating officer today. I really want you to take your rightful place and speak into my life and into my heart. People say, Well, yeah, but how do how do you hear God's voice for yourself? Well, trust me, God's voice sounds a lot like your voice. And the narrative in your head is often when we make room for God, it it starts to have a flavor of his language, of his style, of the things that represent him. Um, like for instance, if you typically think about fear-based things, all of a sudden those fear-based things move into courageous things where you're possibly thinking about taking a risk or doing something you haven't done before.

SPEAKER_04 56:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

And so invitation is the is is the ground zero where you just start to make room for God. And trust me, he is excited about being your business partner. He's excited about being there for you and with you.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Um, and if if we do make room for him, he is going to blow us away. Um I'll share one more thing, and I'll brought something from uh uh from the standpoint of a uh declaration that uh may be encouraging for some of the listeners as well as a lot of it has to do with how we see ourselves. Identity is the bedrock of all transformation. The thoughts I believe to be true about myself. Well, trust me, God thinks about you in ways that you've never thought about yourself. And the formation, the transformation that He's inviting us into is ultimately so that we can become everything that God created us to be. So this is a little declaration. Uh matter of fact, I'll say it, you repeat it. Ready?

SPEAKER_04 57:41

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

I declare that the glory of God is being revealed in my life through grace.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Is being revealed in my life through grace.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

I say yes to becoming more like Jesus every day.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

I say yes to becoming more like Jesus every day.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

I choose alignment over resistance.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

I choose alignment over resistance.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

That trust over control.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

Trust over control.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

And obedience that grants me perfect peace.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

And obedience that grants me perfect peace.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

I walk in hope.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

I walk in hope.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Because Christ lives in me.

SPEAKER_01 58:18

Because Christ lives in me.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

I am a part. I am a part of God's amazing plan to love the world.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

Of God's amazing plan to love the world. What a cool, like if you went in every day and deeply like felt that about yourself. You're like, I don't just think this, like I feel it. This is this is who I am. Yeah. The ways in which you'd interact with the world around you would probably change.

unknown 58:45

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

And the opportunities that you'd see in front of you would definitely look a little different. That's pretty cool. Did you write that?

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Yeah. Keep it with you. I will. You can share it somehow in the in the notes or something.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

I definitely will put it in the notes. This is awesome. Well, what do you guys have coming up next?

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Yeah, um uh we're uh uh probably gonna do a uh two-day uh transformational leadership training here in Columbus in August.

SPEAKER_04 59:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Um we are uh gonna tee up another eight-week virtual cohort because a lot of professionals find it you know challenging to give up two full days and break out somewhere and yeah, yeah, yeah. So we space it over eight weeks so that uh it's digestible. And to be honest with you, it's actually from a learning standpoint a lot better from the application and contextualization standpoint.

SPEAKER_04 59:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

And then our big initiative uh uh in the fall uh is gonna be to head back to East Africa and do a TL summit where those five, six, seven countries and our our alumni and teams will gather in one place in Mombasa, Kenya, for a four-day uh initiative.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

What a cool thing. Well, it's awesome, man. Well, I'll put links to Marketplace Solutions and how to contact you and everything in the show notes for listeners that would like to get in touch with you. But thank you for for being here. Thank you for this opportunity. Absolutely. Well, for more resources, uh books, newsletter, or anything else on the topics, you can get them all at markreaves.com. But we are over and out. Thank you for watching the First in Focus show. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to hit like, subscribe, and then share with a friend.