Leading a Blue-Collar Business for Christ with William Cox

Enviro Construction co-owner William Cox joins First and Focused to talk about leading a blue-collar business with bold Christian conviction at just 26 years old.

William shares stories from growing up around construction, finding deeper surrender to Jesus during college, working as a ranch hand in Wyoming, and ultimately returning to Ohio where he saw God clearly direct his path into business leadership and ministry influence.

This episode dives into faith in the workplace, surrounding yourself with the right people, weathering difficult business seasons, and what it means to glorify God through everyday work.

Key Themes

· Christian entrepreneurship

· Blue-collar leadership

· Young men and faith

· Purpose-driven business

· God’s timing

· Community and influence To connect with William: williamcx27@gmail.com To work with Enviro Construction: https://www.enviro-construction.com/

To connect with Mark: https://www.markgreaves.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

My senior year, going through bad breakup, going through just a lot of just drinking, hanging out with the wrong crowd on my knees, of like I can't do it anymore. I can't emphasize this enough because like the only the only guys who don't struggle with pride and lust are dead men and liars. And isn't that the I remember looking in the mirror and like the look in my eye? I was like, I'm gonna beat this J. I'm gonna beat this thing because I'm tough and I don't need like but I don't need you. I wanna I wanna I wanna like almost suffer from what I did because I didn't deserve it.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

How many guys are walking around with that same kind of shame and that same kind of guilt that you come to the realization of what these truths are early in life and you've been able to let it go and give it to the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

When you don't see fruit in your life, it's because you're either A, living in sin, or B, God disciplining you or pruning you.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Whether or not they're like all in yet or like super paying attention, there's just no way that they can doubt how much you care about them. Welcome to First and Focus, the podcast where faith meets leadership. I know you're gonna put me on the spot. I don't know what you're gonna ask him to say. I'm Mark Greaves, and in each episode I sit down with business and industry leaders who put God first in their work and stay focused on building his kingdom through their calling. I can sit here and talk with you all day. Keep up the great work, but the Lord is using you powerfully. I love you. I love watching what Jesus is doing in your life. All right, welcome to the First and Focus show where we interview leaders from various industries who are putting God first in their life and also staying focused on uh the love of Jesus and spreading the gospel through their calling. Today we are here with my friend, Mr. William Cox. So Mark, thanks for having me. Yeah, man. Thank you for being here. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm I'm pumped because uh I mean, we were just talking before the show. I mean, you're 26 years old, quite honestly. I mean, you're one of the 26-year-olds that I know. I don't know a ton of them because I'm older than you now. I swing in a different circle of people, but you got a good head on your shoulders, man, and the stuff that you're doing at such a young age, it's inspiring. So I'm excited to get some of that out here and tell your story. Yeah, I'm here to learn too. I mean, I'm excited. Yeah, well, cool. Let me hit you with an intro. Everybody gets one. So, uh, William Cox, you are the co-owner of Enviro Construction, a vocation that's been in your family tree since before you were born. Your company mission reads this: We move earth with a purpose. Our mission is to build with integrity, serve with honesty, and excavate exaltation. We strive to construct firm foundations, both the communities we serve and in the truth of God's promises. You earned a degree from Miami University before moving to Wyoming, where you work as a ranch hand, learning to rope and train horses out west. You've invested in local real estate, love working with together with your network to fix and flip property, and at only 26 years of age, you're making your mark locally within the church, running a generous business, and leading other towards a relationship with Jesus Christ. Sounds about right. Yeah, I think it's pretty cool bio for being 26, brother. Yeah. So as it pertains to this, I mean, I I talked a little bit about how, you know, this construction business and this type of work. I mean, I I know that you said that you know you grew up watching your grandpa on a tractor and things like that. So it's been in your family tree now for a long time. But um what were you like growing up? Like, give me a like a glimpse into before we get into you know some of the meat of what you're doing today, what was growing up like for you?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, growing up was um one of six kids and being in the middle child, older two brothers and older sister. Like I was in the middle of the pecking order. So can competition is like one of my um, I believe you're talking with um actually Jeff with about this on your last podcast, but talking about like your strengths or like your in those internal things that are like hardwired into you. And I know I don't know if Sam and uh his prime movers, but he had us all go through the um the uh Clifton, the five strengths finder, and like uh like competition is like one of my strategic competition. So I definitely saw that like growing up, like to be better than my brothers was that pressure was always there, and then also like them just like whooping up on me and like where are you at in the in the the order four? Yeah, number four. So the three older the three that are older than me, and the two older brothers, you know, wrestling, oh yeah, it'd be sports, whether it'd be like anything. Like I was usually the test dummy, and then I was glad to pass that on to I thankfully I have a little brother who could who could have it was my test dummy, you know. I was like, hey, like you go check this out and like see see if it's safe, and then I'll do, you know. So um growing up, like a lot of uh and a lot of love. Like we I have extremely close relationship with all my siblings and my parents who they just had their 40th, yeah, they said their 40th one anniversary. And all my siblings super close. I think the farthest one's my brother John. He's in Marysville. And um, yeah, so growing up is super tight-knit, a lot of competition, and a lot of um, a lot of Jesus too. We're all we're all very firm believers and we love um we love God. We love on Sundays after church, we come back home and we have family supper. Um, it is is even to the to this day, you guys still do that? Even to this day, yeah. I mean you might have like one who can't make it because you know, whatever's sick or you're going to the in-laws, but usually, I mean, we at least uh usually every Sunday, like the house is always packed. You know, we always almost all of us are always there.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

So it's so much fun, man. I mean, you because uh I mean you can't really discount that enough because going back and getting back together with family and people that you care about, that you have you know time with, that you understand, like, hey, this there's history here, it just kind of anchors you like even if something chaotic is going on in your life, you got that you know source to go back to, that foundation. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Oh, I can't emphasize enough how much my siblings have been, like you said, anchor. Like I go out and you get burnt by the flame, and when everybody else just wants to um, you know, almost embarrass you, almost put you down, almost make you s doubt yourself, make you think you're crazy, and you might be, but and then to go back and to have nothing but brothers who love me, sisters who love me, and my parents who love me. Like that's yeah, you can't really. I've I think on my knees every night, I thank God for my family and for how close we are, because um, not to take it for granted, but I feel like a lot of times I just assume that's the normal. Um, and see that with some of my friends. I'm like, oh, like you know, you might not have a good relationship with your brother, or you might not have a good relationship with your parents or like any of this stuff. So I'm extremely blessed and super thankful um for our family and the way that we grew up.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Yeah. I mean, so you you just mentioned it, you said you knew you've known Jesus all your life, but I know that you've also you said you made a like a conscious decision to really follow him senior year in college, which is not that long ago, right? So, I mean, give us a little bit of glimpse into that. What what made you want to go all in at that point?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah, I'd say um growing up, like again, we read the Bible, we read all you know, everything, and never denied Jesus, always like I always had Jesus first and always thought about Jesus, always like prayed because I, you know, it's what we're supposed to do when it church because we're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

And eventually, like my senior year, going through bad breakup, going through just a lot of just drinking, hanging out with the wrong crowd in college, just getting me into just like almost a band-aid at that point. Really just had me um a senior year, it was probably it was in September, and just on my knees of like I can't do anymore. And the bit and the worst problem was, and I can't emphasize this enough because like the only the only guys who don't struggle with pride and lust are dead men and liars. And so isn't that the that is so it's like in like coming to that, like the realization that that um and the pride that I was taking on. So senior year of college, like I knew Jesus, I had a bad breakup, I had a lot of deep wounds um from um just a lot of shame that I carry with me into college. Yeah, a lot of shame. And when I actually like it just hit me, that breakup was like the tipping, the tipping point where I was just like, I tried to do it myself. I've tried to pick up myself up by my bootstraps, I've tried to be tough. I remember look, I remember looking in the mirror and like the look in my eye, I was like, I'm gonna beat this shame. I'm gonna beat this thing because I'm tough and I don't need like God, thank you. I know you're there and I love you, but I don't need you. I'm gonna I wanna I want to like almost suffer from what I did because I deserve it. And that was this terrible, terrible idea. So then like those three years through college were just like brutal, just because like everything was just like uh you gotta be better, you gotta be tougher, you gotta be stronger, you gotta pick yourself up, you gotta do this, this, and this. And then that pride and that like that really ate away big time at my relationship with Jesus. Cause like God's saying, you know, now looking retrospective, I'm like what I was saying then is that the cross wasn't enough to fix me, which is the biggest lie I've ever believed. And I believed that for so long. And um, so and when I hit that tipping point, senior year and that breakup, I was just on my knees, and I'm like, why have I been trying so hard to like I'm not strong enough? I can't do it myself. Yeah, I'm not tough enough. I you know, you're not gonna fix like Jesus already did it, and I don't know why I was looking, you know. I it's just that immense amount of pride. Like, I remember looking in the mirror and look at my eyes. I'm like, I'm tough, I can do this all myself. It's like that's the most funny.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Well, it's an interesting thing because you're as you're sitting here, I'm like, man, I hope that there's a bunch of young guys who are listening to this because we're gonna get into it, but when it comes to like physical toughness and when it comes to like physical ability, I mean you're you're big, strong dude, you run a construction company, um, you've done some some stuff. You are like the uh kind of like the embodiment of like a like a male persona. So how many guys are walking around with that same kind of shame and that same kind of guilt, um but wanting to do it on their own and how long they hold on to it? I think what's most admirable about you is that you've come to the realization of what these truths are early in life and you've been able to let it go and give it to the Lord as opposed to trying to carry it and do it all yourself. I mean, what what do you think it was that you know made you come to your senses so quick?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Um, I'd say the biggest thing is like A, like if you see a lot of um uh Bill, I think it's uh Wilkinson, the uh fruits of the vine, and uh I just finished that book up with uh our men's group. And when you don't see fruit in your life, and you're not in your you're looking at your basket, you know, when when Jesus was going through the Garden of Gethsemane, you know, and he went through the uh he went through the vineyard to show why why would he do that right before he was getting ready to be crucified? And so that whole that whole book breaks it down and basically it makes you look like at yourself, look at the amount of fruit that you're producing. And I would yeah, I would emphasize this to any young men um who are out listening, is like if you don't feel like you're producing a lot of fruit, it's because you're either A, living in sin, or B, God's disciplining you or pruning you, and He's trying to He would have something so much better for you, and He's trying to steer you in the right direction, and sometimes He will use discipline just like just like you would discipline your sons if they try to run across the road and chase after a basketball in the middle of the highway. You discipline them to make sure they don't do it again.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Um, and then so the realization of all that stuff happening, I kept realizing that I didn't have any fruit, I didn't have any fruit, all this kind of negative stuff kept happening. Um, and then the the switch really turned when I was just like I was exhausted. I I knew I know I didn't have any fruit, I didn't feel like I had any fruit and just burnout, and then all only thing I could think of is like, well, I I actually need to like look at the relationship with Jesus because I know I go to church, I know I I pray, but I'm like, am I really, do I really mean it? Have I really surrendered? Have I had the um uh Romans 12 too? It's like have I renewed my mind? Like, have I have I been transformed? Like I haven't done any of this stuff. Yeah, and um, so that was really like the clicking point. And I think the guys that walk around, and I'm still guilty of like walking around sometimes with my chest out and saying, I'm tough. I don't, you know, sometimes like I just want you as men, we we want to just control and we want to like hang on and we'll be tough, and we we got everything on our backs, you know. That's that's great. Um, and the realization of that, like at a younger age, like when I this was yeah, 23, so three years ago, was just that like, man, like it's okay if I don't look like I'm the toughest guy in the room, you know, because I'm used to like I'm used to that. I'm used to just being, you know, I don't want anyone, you know, and no guy wants to say it's oh that guy's weaker. That guy's like, man, he's he's saying that he has to surrender to something. Yeah, he has to say that he's not tough enough or something. Like, man, like just saying that kind of like you know, kind of irk, you know, kind of irks me a little bit, but I'm like, I know that's the truth. Like, you can't just like live in that pride, um, eat you alive.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

So speaking of toughness, I want to get to this. Like, wait first off, what'd you major in at Miami?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Uh I started out in architecture and then halfway through flipped over to the business school and so supply chain and entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Okay, which I think probably fits, you know, a lot of skills that you're using now. Yeah. What in the world took you to Wyoming? Because you went to Wyoming, you become a ranch hand, right? And doing roping and stuff and got pretty good at it.

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Just take us through that because I think that your your story has a couple of different layers to it, but you have this adventure right after college. What was this all about?

SPEAKER_00 13:13

That was really so the whole trip came out of um, and this is this is another thing, like working again to emphasize, I work with my family. Um, I work with my dad every day. I see my dad every day. I'm very grateful, not to say that it doesn't have its stresses and then its strains, and then you know, no one ever wants to have um a relationship with their father, and you know, when you see him every day and it to be kind of you know bitter or anything. So after working through college, um, my oldest sister Emily and her husband, we that's when we were building these container houses in Hawking Hills, and there was just and there, my sister, she's go-getter, like gung-ho, crazy. And so it was her husband, Seth, like crazy, go, go, go, go, go. And so I was helping them, and I was helping dad, and things were just getting kind of like I was just getting kind of burnt out and like working a lot, and it was just right after college, and I was just like, man, I don't really know if like and that's the other thing I would encourage anybody. Like, if you, if you guys, any young guys out there that are listening, like go before you really dig into your like I would just say, like, because what I did out there, I learned so much, and I had so like that year was like one of the best years of my life. And um going out there, it was kind of just literally like I was just like picked up on the phone, I'm like, oh, like I think I remember hearing about this ran. I actually snowboarded out there junior year of college. We went on a ski trip out there in Jackson Hole, and I remember seeing this name with this ranch, and I was like, Oh, okay, like that's cool. And you know, three years later, I ended up just like, hey, like cutting hitting them up and um got the information, like hit them up, and then they got back with me, like, yeah, like we'll see you in May. And this is like a month, like a span of like maybe a month or two. And I was like, okay, like sweet, let's go. Like, and that was and that and because for me, like I don't know, a lot of people um I don't like or it's sorry, I have to say like comfort to me is like you know, comfort kills, and like to be when you're when you're this young, like you really shouldn't be that comfortable. Like, if you don't have if you're not married and have kids, then you don't have any excuse not to like pack up and and go adventure.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Well, or at least do something that um is gonna push your limits a little bit. Because I'm a firm believer in what you just said, and I'm gonna get back to your story, but people think about like uh compounding, the compounding nature of things. People like compound interest, right? Compounded about in the beginning when you're young, compound knowledge and experience is really what it's all about. So don't settle into a comfort zone early in life. That's not what you want. You want to be learning and pushing yourself. It doesn't mean that you should always be like quitting your job and doing something new. That's not what I mean. But push yourself in knowledge and experience because the compound nature of that and how it plays out for the rest of your life is far more valuable than really any other thing you could do. Don't lull yourself to sleep. There's there's so much for you. So learn and take some risks, you know, especially when you're young.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Yeah. And I'd say it's we're not really taught that, though. That's the problem. Everyone we're taught to be afraid. We're taught to, you know, I mean, I know our parents, um, at least my parents are just like, you know, safe, safe. And my parents are always super encouraging, never like, but I know a lot of my friends' parents that are just like, that's you know, kind of like want to put fear in like those are like the those kind of inputs in your life and the decisions you make are they influence you a lot. And in those kind of situations, you're like, well, they might say, like, that sounds dangerous. And you don't have to be reckless, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

It doesn't mean that go do just crazy reckless things with your life, but like if there's something that is you've always wanted to do and it's also in line with your skills and your abilities and like some of your God-given gifts, which I think this was, um, that then you can lean into it because then you can explore those those different things and see what the options look like. 100%. So, okay, what'd you do out there?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Uh it's a funny thing. I actually got we got when I got out there, like again, I had no, I'm like one of my strengths too is I love like being in new places. I'm more comfortable in a room of a hundred people I don't know than a room of a hundred people that I do know. I know that sounds crazy, but like that's just I like being in that atmosphere of just like meeting people. And I go out there, drive my truck, uh whatever, 1200 miles. And uh the first thing which I drive into this like just this dirt road was like absolutely destroying my truck's break, uh my shocks, and I'm like, holy crap, like where the heck am I? So I'm like I'm driving through, like drive like a mile and a half off of the main interstate, way back into it's Moose, Moose, Wyoming. And I get back there, and there's a name of the town's called Moose. Yeah, yeah. Oh boy. So yeah, exactly. So and it is right next to the um Grand Town National or Yellowstone. So like the surrounding, it's kind of grandfathered and there's there's no other neighbors besides this ranch. It's just sort of completely surrounded by the park, which is really nice because it's just all park around you. So when we would go ride horses or whatever, you're just going straight into the park over thousands and thousands of acres of trails and stuff. So um, but I got out there. I remember the first day that I did out there like getting acclimated. I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna acclimate pretty quick. So I just like I grabbed my grabbed my 44, put it in my belt, and got up, I think, at like five o'clock that morning and like summited like the closest little mountain that I could find. And I got up there and watched the sunrise. And I remember just like there is um that verse and um how great thou art. Like when you hear the brook and feel the gentle breeze and you know the through the woods and the glades I wander. Like that song was burned. Like, that's what I would listen to that song over and over when I was out there, just being in God's name, like the creation and like how perfect it is and undisturbed it is. It's like so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

It is crazy when you can get into like the undisturbed portions of nature because then you can see like God's fingerprints on things that we haven't manipulated.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

It's pretty cool. It's the same reason. Like I love hunting. And when I go out and hunt, and when you actually sit there long enough and you can actually see what the woods look like when nothing knows you're there, it's you're like, wow, like this is crazy that like you know, you can see deers, they play with each other, or you see like raccoons will fight with each other. You know, you just see stuff as like just part of nature that goes on every day. You have no idea like you don't even realize you're doing like it goes on, A, because you're not in the woods, or B, because you're not in the woods when you're quiet and actually sitting there, like nothing else knows you're there. So yeah. But I mean, I got out there, I did that, and the first day we were just like, all right, like if there's snow on the ground till May, probably right about now. There's still big piles of snow out there from all the snow piled, pushed up. So from there, you're kind of just like checking all the buck rail, which is all the rails that go around the pasture. All the weight of the snow has wrecked those. So you gotta go fix all those. You gotta get you got to turn water back on to all the different cabins and houses and the lodges. All you turn all the water off in the winter because it's just even being buried that deep, it'll freeze, and then pipes bursting in the winter is like their worst nightmare, you know. Digging those up in the middle of you know, negative 20 degrees. Yeah. So not good. Yes, they just turn the water off, you know. They basically do a whole winterized, winterized process and shut everything down. But so basically dewinterizing everything. So coming back into you know the the warm season, breaking up the snow and getting all the equipment out and getting, and then the horses arrive. We get pro they got probably I think 90, I think, usually typically is what they they haul in these horses for they go down to Arizona, I believe, um, for the summer. And they keep a couple on the ranch over the winter for transport because you can't get to the road. Either they use the horses to get out there or they'll use sleds. Um, but they keep a couple there and then rest of them they bring in. So once once they bring the horses in, it's kind of just it's cool just to see like the full fruition of just like man, horses at west, like horseback riding and fly fishing and roping, and it's just like it's it's the best thing ever.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Pretty unbelievable. So from this from this point, you come back, you know, to Columbus, and I know that you kind of had a moment where you know you joined back up with the company, you didn't know if that was really what was going to be for you or not. You're thinking, hey, am I going back out to Wyoming? Like that was probably more fun, is my guess.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

But God kind of lined up a series of events that kind of told you, this is where I'm supposed to be. Take us through that. How did you hear God's voice in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Yeah. I like thinking of this too, is um a lot so many times, like we God passes by and we fail to recognize it just because we're not looking or we're not listening. Which I've I've always just like trying to get so much better at that. It's like I always say, like, well, I wish I could like hear God's voice or discern God's voice, like some people do, so they just heard the voice of God. I'm like, okay, well, maybe you can't hear the voice, maybe I'm not I can't be able to hear the voice of God, but I sure as I can try a little harder to listen and see things around me. They're maybe pointing me that way, um, or what he wants me to do and his will be done, not mine. And when I start doing that, like it's like the red car theory, it's like give you a hundred dollars. Every red car you saw on the way here, you you wouldn't know. But if I told you before we got here, I say, Hey Mark, I'll give you a hundred dollars for every red car that you see on the way here, and sure enough, you'd be looking and counting. So when I actually started to realize that like I need to be looking and listening because it was in a time where, again, pretty um new. Actually, was this this would have been this would have been like right before I was baptized. So again, I my the sanctification pro at that process was like yeah, graduated, I moved, I uh went out west, and I was getting ready to go back. So I was definitely maturing in my faith. And when I finally started to like listen and hear more, and these things kind of just popped up where I was like, my sister randomly texts me, um, like who's a realtor, and she's like, Hey, like this pretty cool duplex that came up, came up on the market. Like, you should put an offer. And I was like, Ah, I kind of want to go out west. And I was like, Well, whatever, I'll just put a put a you know, a low offer in on it. And um threw that offer in, it got accepted to my amazement, you know. So, oh, okay. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm you know, should I really go put what year was that? This was in 20, it would have been in the beginning of 24. Closed on it in 24.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah, because uh I mean, lately around here in Columbus, especially duplexes, yeah, they're uh they're they're pretty hot when they hit the market. So you're lowballing it.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, and somehow you get it. This old lady was like, yeah, sure, I'll give it to you. So I'm like, all right. So I I somehow secured that, and then that's when I and another thing too, like I can encourage this is like one of my this is what part of like my dislocated heart or my whole ambition is that like I want I want to be able to reach like for me growing up and why I didn't have my whole the whole all through college, and I would have been so much better off if I would have had a strong Christian man to come by my side and you know be my Paul and kind of actually pour into me. I never had that like I love my dad to death. My dad is very humble, very kind, very loving, but just not we never, you know, we never talked about, you know, the birds and the bees, we never talked about actual faith. We never talked about um what what Jesus meant to us, you know. So it was kind of just like a um, I don't know, like a milk toast or kind of just a just uh something we knew we did, but we never really like dug in, you know. And I craved that for so long. And I looked through college, I would go to so many different churches and could never find like anyone who would be willing to like take me. Like I'm like, take I wanted someone to take me and just like sharpen me. Like I I want you to make me do hard stuff, I want to study, I want to do this stuff. Could never find anybody, and it really caught I mean, I'm not blaming it on that, but that really helped me in that situation. And that's why I would love to get to to go see young men today, even and again, I know with my I'm only 26 years old, and I feel like like we were talking before the podcast, like sometimes I just feel like I'm not uh I'm not qualified, or you know, I'm not old enough to really be um you know telling 18-year-olds or 20-year-olds like what to do. But I if I can or whenever that point, you know, I want to just like how old you need to be. I know, right? Yeah, so but that's really where I came, like that moment where I was like, okay, I have the the um the knowledge when I was actually digging into my faith, and that's the discernment that happened. Then I found Jersey, was where I was going with that. Is like I finally found a church that really like took me in. I found an old guy who had a lot of wisdom, Sam, and he's like, Yeah, like let's go. Like kind of just like threw me on the back of the car and just like took off of like digging into our faith and what you know what following God actually meant, you know. And that was like something I crave for so long. So when I as soon as I tasted that, I was like, I'm in, like, I'm not going anywhere. This is exactly where God wants me.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

It's interesting you mentioned Sam because so many guys have mentioned his name, and this isn't a guy who's out trying to you know create a lot of fanfare around himself or anything like that. What he's doing is just as faithfully stepping, and as God introduces men into his life, uh his calling is to go help you, essentially, and me, because he's mentored me as well. Yeah let's let's go find your gifts, your strengths. What has God gifted you with? What is you know the holy ambition on your life that you can go pursue and find purpose and meaning in while you go explore what Jesus has for you to do here? I mean, it's uh it's a pretty cool thing. And yeah, well, what a what an influence just like one guy can have. So I love that you're looking to have that same influence on others. I mean, it's been a gift to you. Yeah, extremely. Um I'm gonna skip ahead here for a second because you've just mentioned a couple of things. I'm gonna read this because this is a statement that lives on your guys' website. So in Viro Construction, this is on your website. It says it's kind of crazy that this is something that you're putting out there as a construction company. Ever wonder why you are on this earth? Question mark. What skills has God given you to use during your short time here? Pondering these questions, we came to the conclusion that our purpose is greater than just digging holes. We believe that glorifying God by serving our neighbors is essential to our purpose. Our mission is to excavate exaltation, glorify God in everything we do, even if something as simple as digging holes. So you were just in high school eight years ago. Think about that. That's not that's not that long ago. Then you've been in college, you've been fully alive in Christ for four years, give or take. Um now I know you've told stories like you're getting half million dollar contracts um at your construction company, um, you're co-running that with your father, you've got the guts to put something like that on your website. Like, do you realize how rare that is for a 26-year-old?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah, honestly, the more I look around, it's yeah, surprisingly. That's rare for 50 year olds.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

So the reason I skipped ahead of that question is because your point of like how how old do I need to be to influence others? Um I think that there's a lot of wisdom that is coming out right now through lived experience of what you're already doing that people could learn from. Because a lot of people just have fear um and stepping out in those ways. So it hasn't really hindered your business.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

It it hasn't not to, if anything, I kind of like the you when you say that, kind of like the rate, even today. I was thinking when I really started to, you know, got back from Wyoming, I got the house and then I found the I found the mentor, started to dig in, that's when I really started to like ponder these things of like, okay, dad, like what's this business for? Like, what do we need really? What are we doing it for? And why does any of it matter? What are our skills and how can we use that for the kingdom? And that I I chewed on that for, and I'm still chewing on it. I'll chew on it for a long time, I'm sure. But it's like, how how can you how can you, my God, how can you make your glory out of how you make it out of excavation or digging holes or like hauling stuff? And to be honest with you, I still don't know the truth, but I I do know that whatever it is that we're doing, like I just wanted to point back to Jesus. And it's been like it's been such a such a journey because when I start realizing you start seeing these little mundane things that are blessings, like, oh, I didn't get that contract. Oh man, I really we really needed that. And I was really, you know, I'd get really upset and my dad, we'd get down. And then like, you know, a year later, the guy who got the contract reach out, he's like, count your blessings. Like, this was like one of the worst, like we lost so much money on this. So it's like, oh wow, okay. Like, well, I was obviously, yeah, no, God, not that you know, but what an interesting point that is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Sometimes in the moment, the things that we're most upset about later on in hindsight, we realize like we're blessings. It's like, how can we just go into every single situation? Yeah, understanding that God's got the timeline in his in his palm.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah. And if you're if you're a contractor and you're listening you know that, you know, in that world, it's like it's you got to kill to eat. If you don't, if you're not getting contracts, you're not getting bids, and you don't eat, you guys aren't, you got bills to pay. And it's a dog eat dog world. And so when you say you don't want to get a big break on that, you want to be, you know, like, ah man, I really stunk. We didn't get it. But shifting that attitude and what I have now, and looking at like, okay, when something like that happens, I know I'm a hundred percent confident that God has a better plan. And I was just on a mission trip two weeks ago in Puerto Rico, same like same kind of thing. Like, I've I the more you practice this, this is the only way I've gotten better at it. And the only way I know you've you've talked about it too, getting better at it, just like recognizing and listening and and abiding. Um, and Sam always asks that question. He goes, How do you spell abide? And you go around the room, everybody's like, A, B, no, how do you spell A B no? And it keeps going around the room, and then every after everyone's like, I guess I don't know how to spell a bide, and he's like, T-I-M-E, a time. Like it's the only way, the only way you can abide is time and spending more time. And so where I was going with that is in Puerto Rico, like our plans got completely in shambles. We were supposed to be doing construction. I'm like, sweet, I want to be able to do something I'm good at. Well, then, like two weeks before, there's some you know, mix-ups and whatever, like, couldn't do the construction before we were getting ready to go. I'm like, oh man, like I got kind of down. I was like, man, I'm good at construction. I wanted to be put to my best effort and use the my talents. And then Tyler, our um our lead for the team, was like, hey, like, don't get down. Like, I know it's kind of not what you had in mind, but I promise when like change like the plans change like this, it's because God has a better plan. He doesn't need you swinging a hammer, he doesn't need you doing the things you're good at. Maybe you're gonna find something else you're really good at. And that was a super cool that whole experience in general, but I don't want to get too off topic. But that was phenomenal. But it was an example of like when I recognized that, like, okay, there was another way that like plans changed and something didn't happen the way you want it to happen. But instead of just like being, I was so easy to just uh to jump on it and be very pessimistic and um very you know, closed-minded like this is the worst thing ever. And it's like, and then after you get done with it, you almost nine times out of ten, I'm like, wasn't that bad? You know, it wasn't that big of a deal. You're about to get that upset about, or even heart like hurt relationship with my dad over. It's like, so after that kind of stuff happened, and then you see a little bit like today. I missed, I missed. I was on the phone, my brother called me, and I was driving, I missed my turn to drop off. I was dropping off a load of um pipe at the job site, and I missed my turn. I was like, crap. I was like, well, I gotta go the long way around, but I'm like, that's all right. Like there might have been a rack on that road, or there might have been someone who would have hit me if I would have been on that road, so God just taking me other way. So it's like stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

When you start like thinking like it's see, it's pretty cool because it's well, it's just the truth. Yeah, you know, it's like um God sees the beginning from the end. He's he's already watching your timeline play out. Yeah, and I think he celebrates when you take steps toward him. Yeah, and you've taken so many steps towards him in your business, which I know can't be easy. How's it played out for your employees?

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Uh it's been it's been really it's been hit or miss. I mean, you have the guys who are who are on board and attentive and listen. Um, you have the guys who maybe no one really dismisses it and I don't really let them, you know. It's like you're gonna sit down and listen to what we're gonna have teaching, because I know I don't know if I told you mentioned that, but every like the first Monday of every month, we'll do a different um study. So whether it be um, you know, we talked about uh forgiveness, we talked about uh big thing with men, pornography, we talked about that with how they talk about the guys all the time, talk about a pride, you know, I do different subjects to I'll pull some questions out of either holy ambition or R12, um true spirituality. Just some questions to get the guys going. And a lot of them are very open to it, and some of them, none of them are ever just very dismissive, but a lot of them are just open to accept them. But the problem that I see is the you know, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it, you can't make him drink because like what I want to do, I'm like, I want you guys to like be excited about this. Like you guys have purpose, like you guys have so many talents that I don't have, and you guys are in this situation, that situation, or with your girlfriend, and this is gonna be great. And it's like, but not a lot of drive. I mean, all the guys that I work with, again, in their 20s, um, and work for me, like they're young, and like I I feel like like um superficiality is such a big problem, like in today's and our younger generation, in my generation, of just like you know, click a button and you want to get it, like you don't want to, you just want it to be there immediately and instantly and at the cheapest costs and at the you know all the stuff. And as soon as you say, like, this stuff's gonna be hard, like this isn't gonna be an easy road, like you're gonna have to be putting in some work. And yeah, you might have to read your Bible and scroll a little less on TikTok, you know. But then when you tell these guys out there, like, oh, and they they might leave. But it it really all comes down to um discipline. My grandpa always, my grandpa always said there are the haves and the have nots. It's like if you got like, you know, if you don't have it yet, if you don't get it, you know, in your 20s and your 30s, like that discipline. Um, and I'm reading the book right now, the celebration of discipline, great, it's good to you. Yeah, it is, but like that kind of stuff. I'm like, man, how could how how can you sit there and tell you, and I'm not perfect at it, but like if someone were to walk up to me, even before I was a believer, and were to say, hey, like you have extreme talent, extreme gifts that only one person specifically designed you to do, and all you got to do is trust in him and abide in him and be in his word and do this and do that. And it's like, if you would have told me that, I'd have been at least been like interested for maybe like a month at least, you know. You think somebody would be in, but it's like odd times just like in one ear out the other, which is it's frustrating for me as uh as you know, someone who I want the best for them, and I'm just like I'm like pushing them.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

I'm like, come on, guys, like well, keep going because the uh just the the level that you're bringing to these guys, because whether or not they're like all in yet or like super paying attention, there's just no way that they can doubt how much you care about them. Because this is not normal for an employer to do of any kind. But the fact that there's an actual monthly teaching that you care enough to bring up tough topics like that, and whether it's forgiveness or you know pornography or whatever it is, I mean, it's those are topics that not everybody's willing to talk about and push guys in. But just one addition to you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, it if you lead it there enough times, it knows where to go and it's thirsty. So just remember that. Like what you are is you're an example to your people and to your team. And obviously, like they know that you care about and they know that you love Jesus. And you guys are running this thing differently. So they might not be interested now, but when push comes to shove in their life, or all of a sudden, like God gives them a gear where they want more, they want that discipline, they want what they see in you. Obviously, you're sitting here with open invitation, hoping to try to lead them there so they understand that that open invitation exists. Yeah, you're doing something really important.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah, that's super interesting. I you just said that and it reminded me literally two weeks ago, Sunday after church, I get a phone call from one of my one of my friends, Derek, um, from senior year of college.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

And again, this was kind of during my um the revelation of like, okay, I need the relationship where I need the relationship. Like, wasn't fully saved, but you know, I some people have the argument. I was like, when were you saved? Well, I never denied Christ, and I knew Jesus when I was two years old, so I was saved when I was two. But when I was baptized in in 23, so a year after I really started pursuing God. Anyway, I was talking with Derek called me and I haven't talked to him in maybe two or three years. And he called me. I used to we used to roll um do jujitsu and hang out, and um, he would talk about his faith. And I remember he was calling, he called me and he's like, Oh, I didn't mean to call you, but now I got you on the phone. Like, I really got something I need to tell you. I'm like, Oh man, like, what's up? He's like, I haven't talked to you in so long, but I'll never forget senior year and um Professor Waters' class. He said, You said something before, like it was like before we were out to graduate. He said, You said something in your class. He's like, You didn't really care what you were gonna do in the future, just as long as you're in it, whatever it was, it would be God's will. And he's like, It never sat right with me. Not that it didn't sit right, but he's like, I just always wondered like what the heck you were saying, like when you meant that and said that. And to me, like he started saying this, and I was like, Oh yeah, I do kind of remember that presentation, like totally forgot about it and thought like it fell on deaf ears or led the horse to water, but it didn't drink. Yeah, because everyone in my class was kind of just like sitting there, like drooling, you know. Oh yeah. And um, and he calls me and tells me this, and I'm like, Oh yeah, I definitely remember that. Like, uh, what's up, man? He's like, I just want to let you know, like, I've given my life to Jesus, and like ever since then, he's like, that's always played in the back of my head of like what you said that day. And I'm like, that's so crazy. Because to me, like, I didn't even like it was I didn't really say anything special. I didn't like it. It was literally like a five-minute, like, what are you gonna do after college? Like, that's all it was. And um, man, I remember just I was crying.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

I was like, Don't discount your influence. I mean, it's that's that's the thing, is leadership is influence, everybody knows that, but everyone's circle of influence is very, very different. And a lot of times we don't really put a lot of weight on ours because we we compare ourselves to others, and you look at someone that has perceived more influence than you, but sometimes it's the peers, sometimes it's just the friend, it's the person that uh isn't trying too hard, but is just kind of being who they are. That influence is sometimes more real and more trustworthy because it's um it's more authentic than somebody who's like actively trying to influence you in a certain way. So when you say that, I mean, just the day-to-day influence of people who are willing to follow the call of God and not afraid to have the name of Jesus on their lips and not just I always say, like, hey, nobody's gonna save anybody and change someone's eternity by being a really nice guy. Like I exactly I think having the name of Jesus guide you and having people understand that and know that people will come. Yeah. It's just the way that it works. Well, I want to get into this question because not every decision that you're making is just like easy up and to the right. I mean, just following Jesus and running a business where you know God is honored, it doesn't mean that everything just becomes easy. You guys are in a cyclical business. And I know like winters are tough. Yeah. So what has your faith taught you throughout that? How do you lean on God, you know, when every year you know you're gonna have a slow season coming up?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

And tell us how that works. Yeah, I'd say it's definitely gotten again, the more we do it, or the more at least I do it. I'm still trying to get my dad. I know I was telling you earlier, it's like teaching an old dog new tricks and bringing my dad around to it, it's not very um to him. I'm sure that dynamics weird where it's like your son is really pushing you because I know we always we look up to our dads and our our father figures are so important in our lives. Um, and for me to almost feel like I'm like pushing him and trying to teach him some stuff, I'm sure I can't imagine what it would feel like in his shoes, but you know, obviously very receptive and loving. And so like every year I go into this, we go into the season, we're like, All right, I'm like, all right, dad, like let's just pray. Um, let's just pray. So when's the season start typically? Typically, we can usually get like through December, and then it's the January, the February, even then to March, um, where it's just like, man, it's just tough. And especially after the new year, like you're kind of just coming down off the holidays, the days are short, they're cold, it's wet, it's muddy, there's a lot of money. You got bills to pay, but not a lot of money coming in. You got guys you're trying to keep on payroll, and um, yeah, I mean, it gets tight and it gets scary. I know a lot of times my dad's done it for this long, and um how he's done it is just to you know try never he won't take a paycheck. He won't, you know, it's some of the stuff that you do when you're like my dad is just the most humble person ever. The business owner, people don't realize that. Everybody thinks the business owner is like he's killing it.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

It's like, no, actually, that guy isn't he eats last.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Yeah, I hasn't taken it, yeah, I haven't eaten last and I hasn't taken a paycheck in three months, you know, and even through the summer, like it's a lot of it's just like straight back into the company, and just he's just very humble. Very um, I look up to him a lot and I love him a lot. And um, so those like those seasons is when like I re realized that like I'd be on like on my knees beside my bed, and I'd have to pray about it because I knew the next day I'm like, God, I don't know what we're gonna do tomorrow. Like, we don't have any work. We've got guys who are gonna get a paycheck on Friday with money that we don't have. And when you're like I listened to with Scott, Arnold, you talked about him, how God just shows up to the last penny. It is literally the same exact, it's the same story here. Like, I could just, and I'm not saying like you guys talked about, so it's not just being like ignorant and being foolish, but it's just having the full faith and like God, whatever you bring the next day, let me lean into it, let me lean into it and let it, you know, be your will, not my will. I because I can't do it. I don't I keep I don't know what we're gonna do. I really don't, and I I really need you, not that I need you to fall solve all my problems, but I need you to give me the strength and discernment to be able to go solve the problems I have and and find you know the work that we need. Um so that was a really when I was listening to that, I was like, it's spot on because it gets super hard and working through that every day. And like you just do it every day, like I'm every night. I'm like, I have no idea what we're gonna do tomorrow. No idea. And the next day, something somebody calls, hey, like we could use some we could use some snow pile, or hey, we could do some gravel, or hey, if you want, if you guys want to stay busy, I got this little this this and this we can do. And I'm like, every day. I'm like, man, this faithfulness is just unmatched. And um it's almost like the there was a I met a guy in Puerto Rico, he's a pastor, and he was talking about what faithfulness is. And he's like, if I asked you to I'm like, hey Mark, like will you pick me up tomorrow at seven o'clock at you know the corner of this, this, this road, and this road, and you'd be like, Yeah, sure, like I'll be there at seven o'clock. Okay. And if you did that for you know 20 years straight, never were late and never missed it every day. Like that's faithfulness, like you know, just the the the unrelinquishing, just the every day, just the time and time and time and time and again. And that's all like that's all I ever see whenever I'm abiding and walking with God. It's like it's crazy. And it's like when you start to realize it, you start to see it more and more often. And granted, I there's a lot of times I don't see it, you know, it's so I've still um pass by. But I like the um in Matthew and when Jesus, like when he calmed the storm from the mountain, you know, he could have calmed the storm, and the disciples, you know, they would have been, oh, like, oh sweet, that was that was kind of scary, like the storm's gone now, like thank goodness, you know. It's like and probably would have forgot all about like God, and then you know, but Jesus comes down from the mountain and he passes by and then they see him and recognize him, like, oh that that, oh Jesus, like thanks, Jesus, like good to you, like you know, you calm the storm. But like, you know, so it's like that moment where it's like there's a lot of times if we would be so easy to to miss it or to not see God moving when all we had to do is look, and he he's right there, you just gotta look up from the boat and see like don't just say, Oh, I the storm, the storm, it calmed itself, you know. But no, but like look and see where God's working.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Man, just as you're talking, what's hitting me in like the back of my head is just like watching you talk about the way that you guys operate, your mindset, how you lean on the Lord, um, how you're influencing not only your employees, but your own father and and family. What would it be like if it was the opposite? You ever think about that? Like I'm 26, and this is the this is my mindset. Um, I've sought out mentors who can help sharpen me. I've leaned into my faith. I know that God's got it. My outlook is is positive. I know that even in the scary times in the winter, I pray, I count on the Lord for my provision. What would it look like if you did it the other way, the world's way? Can you even imagine? Doing it that way? How would it feel? The reason I'm asking the question is because um I I know that people who listen to this show, I know that there's there's some who are all in. I I know that there's some who are like right there on the edge, they're on the line, they want to be all in, but they're afraid to do it this way. Can you even imagine going back and doing it any other way now?

SPEAKER_00 44:22

No, I think that once once you've tasted of his goodness, once you've seen how faithful he is, and again, it's not all rainbows and unicorns gonna be easy, it's still tough, but it it definitely it's a lesser, it's a lesser of the of the suck, you know. I like to say you pick choose your book. It's gonna be it's gonna be hard if you wanted to go do it your own and you know, like I used to do, just pick yourself up by your bootstraps, be tough, you know, do what the world tells you to do, make a lot of money, have a lot of sex, don't get married, don't have kids, and do all this stuff. Like that's what the world wants you to do. That sounds awful, you know. You know, and some to some guys it might sound great. And but you know, we know Satan being the uh the master of lies and the king of deception. Like that is the deception versus when you've actually you know leaned into God and you've seen him work in in ways, I can't imagine. Like I would feel I'd say the biggest thing I'd probably feel is lonely. That's all I ever felt before I knew before I knew Christ, lonely. And like there was a sense and there's the the pride that like I like being alone and I like being tough and do it all myself. Then when you go to sleep at night and you know, you're just like, man, this is all just for me. It's very selfish. Yeah, it's very, very lonely, very dark. Um, you get to the you know, you you get to these accompliments and you look around, you want to celebrate, and no one's around. It's it sounds terrifying. Is this all there is? Yeah, yeah. Sounds terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Yeah, just you know, quick fixes, cheap money, you know, women just like stuff that you're just pursuing as a young man that you think is like the oh it's it's not where the good stuff is.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's I mean, I get it because I used to do it. I used to chase all that stuff. Like, you know, it when that when that's just a when you know when sin entered the world, you know, and now our flesh just craves that sin, and that's why it's not easy. Like everything in your everything in your flesh is telling you, I need this and want it. And then everything in your heart when you've accepted Jesus is pulling you the other way. And yeah, you're gonna sin. And then yeah, you're gonna have triumphs in like the highs of when you felt like so close to God. And the biggest thing is like discerning in those moments, the best thing you can do, especially like after like one of my all-time pieces of advice of like, I love like choosing, like, okay, if if you're if you're listening and you're you know, you you can relate to me and like want to be tough, want to be a warrior. Like you start thinking of yourself as like a warrior, like one of God's chosen warriors, like you know, um, the br the brass plate of righteousness and the helmet of salvation, the sword of truth, like that kind of stuff. You start actually thinking about God equipping you that way in the full armor of God. And every time, because you're gonna fall into sin, when you fall into sin, the best thing you can do, obviously ask for forgiveness, and because Satan loves shame. So Satan loves shame. He doesn't care about the sin. Everybody sins, he knows everyone's gonna sin. Forget the forget the sin. It's the shame that keeps you separate from God. That's what Satan loves. And so I'd say when you when you sin, because you're gonna sin, the best thing to do is to reflect. I if if because it's just like the after we got back from our mission trip, we got back, it's like, what's gonna change? If nothing changes after we took that mission trip, then you went on a vacation, right? Um and when I heard that, it's like, oh, the same thing can be applied when you sin. When you sin and you don't try to change, move the needle one way or just do something a little better. Cause yeah, like when you sin, you're not gonna say, I'm never gonna do that again. You're never that's just that's crazy. It's called um a will worship. When you think, and that's what exactly it goes hand in hand with pride, will worship. Uh I worship my will and my will. Like, I'm gonna say I'm tough enough to get it done, I'm gonna do it. And it is so and it talks about that it's an idol in disguise, really. Exactly. It's an idol in disguise, and you and you think you you think you're gonna you have the best heart, you have the best intentions. Like you know that you're like, I really don't want to do this sin again, and I'm not gonna do it. Problem with that is you are gonna you're all gonna do it. It's your will, you're not, you're not surrounding, it's not God's power, you're trying to use your own power. And um, so when you sin, not saying that I'm gonna take care of this myself, I'm never gonna do that again. Well, you are so but moving that needle in the direction towards God and actually reflecting and taking corrective action that way, and then asking God for the power, his power, and the Holy Spirit to you to work through you because you can't do it yourself. You can't just say, like, I don't I want to make the decision to not do it again. And I really and I know you in your heart, and I know in my heart, there's so many times I've said I don't want to do that again, and I do it anyway. And I'm like, why, why, why? Like reflect, reflect, and reflect. Why do you keep doing this? What situations you're putting yourself into, and what what needs to change? Well, try not relying on yourself, but relying on God, you know, where are your strengths, you know.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

So it's so true, man. Yeah. So a couple more questions. Uh you're your you're a young guy. So when you think about like the immediate future, like when you're looking ahead at the media, what are you most excited about?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Oh man. Uh well, I don't know if you heard earlier, but just got a girlfriend, Angel. She's great. Um, something that for the longest time ever, like my selfishness and my, you know, B, I call my friend Jeremy, he always calls it the BC before Christ. So this is like this is like BC William. Will BC. Yeah, exactly. So before that, like very selfish and like relationships have really never had a lot of depth or breadth, you know, just a lot of just shallow. And um, now that I met her, like I'm I'm just looking forward to like doing because she's on fire for the Lord and doing God's will with her and like with a teammate, like someone like that's what I don't know anything about marriage, obviously. Yeah, but everything I've read about it and studied about it, it's like you're gonna pick someone that you're gonna go to war with. Yeah, pretty much. That's gonna be down in the trenches with you, that's gonna be shoveling, digging, that you can also laugh a lot with. Yeah. I mean, it's uh good, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

That that's you're spot on with that. I mean, um, I'll be married 18 years this summer. And my wife and I, we've been through so much stuff. You know, like there's been there's been stuff that we've been in the depths, and there's also been just so much good times and laughs. And as you get through things together, and then as you experience good things together, and especially when you're experiencing things with God together, I mean, the longer you go, you can't look at them and love them less. Every day when I wake up, I love my wife more because every day, like we've been, whether it's raising kids, whether it's starting businesses, or whether it's, you know, getting closer to Jesus or serving or just anything that happens that you know it collides with your relationship. It's almost impossible as you make it through and as you experience more together, the love just grows and grows and grows and grows. And it gets deeper and better. So it's the the lie of the world, you were talking about lies, is like uh never to settle down, never to get married. No, no, no, no, no. That is a 100% lie because there is, I mean, other than the love that I have of the of the Lord, there's no love greater than that of having like a true partner in life with a with a spouse. Yeah. So I mean you're you're spot on, like actually, you know, starting to pursue that with her. Yeah. That'll be an adventure in itself.

SPEAKER_00 51:15

Yeah, and just doing again, just doing the doing God's will, and not my like every every night and praying like God, your will be done, not mine. Like I want a lot of things, you know, but it's like, but at the end of the day, none of that really matters. The only thing that matters is my relationship with you and the kingdom that you want you're calling me to impact in whatever way you need me to do that. And again, whether it's um through business or through friends and brothers and sisters, but and then on the business side of things, what I'm most excited for is just to see how like full, like full transparency. I have no like I don't like scaling is like I don't know, like I'm on the fence about a lot of stuff with this business. Yeah, honestly, it's literally just like not being not being ignorant, but every day it's like God, whatever you want me to do, I'll do it. You open the door and uh you just lead lead the way. Like I I don't really I used to be again, this was BC. Um BC days was you know, I read like Grant Cardones, like the 10x rule, David Goggins book. Like I was just like hardcore, like I was just it was full of selfishness, full pride of like, I'm gonna take a company, I'm gonna 10x it, I'm gonna make a gazillion dollars, I'm gonna have a private jet, I'm gonna have all this stuff, I'm gonna acquire all this stuff. Sounds great, conquer the world. And now I'm just like, I don't care. Like I don't care anybody.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

That stuff like sounds sounds cool, but I'm like, if you if you need it to be big and you that's what it's supposed to do, because that's what you need it to do to do whatever, then so be it. Yeah, exactly. If it's supposed to be small because you've got other plans for how you want me to spend my time, yeah. Then I'm totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Total 100%. Like if if if my dad tomorrow was like, hey, I think we just need to sell the the business and be done, I'd be like, all right, let's pray first. Yeah and then and then like if that's that's God's will, like I have I have no problem with that.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Yeah, I do think that uh because there's nothing wrong with big business, and there's obviously nothing wrong with small business. Neither one it's like all right, what is this thing supposed to be in order to go do what it's supposed to do? Right. And not for us, for him, yeah, exactly. And if you're thinking that way, you're thinking in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Yeah, because it's again it could go any any direction possible, and and a lot of times it freaks people out, or people want to try uh one of my number one strengths is strategy. Like I want to make the biggest impact for whatever we're good for, yeah. But I've had to learn to like let the reins off because you know your plan is far inferior to God's.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yep, uh, I'm walking proof of that. What would you say to the guy who's maybe listening that isn't the co-owner of their business, like doesn't have like an ownership influence like you do, yeah, um, that wants to live fully for Christ and integrate his faith while he's at work, but he can't just you know have a Bible study with everybody because it's it's not his business.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Yeah. One of, I don't know if you've met Greg Stomack.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Okay, you know Greg. Yeah, and Greg is like so he always we always talk about he's in, he's in like covert op, right? Like he's at work discipling his team of I don't know, 12 people or whatever, like every couple months, but discipling them and they don't even know it. You know, he never says Jesus, never says stuff. And it's crazy because all you have to do, and again, this for the guy out there who maybe if you don't know how to start incorporating it at work, I would say just like curiosity, again, like I was talking about earlier, like going up to someone and telling them like, hey, like what what are your strengths? Like, what are you really good at? What are some things you struggle at? And like getting people curious about like their identity, and then that goes into a whole other topic and talk about today and how the culture tries to just like wipe our identity and like tries to get obviously from birth, like trying to confuse kids who's who's who, and like all this stuff. There's just so much confusion. Who are you? Who are you? Who are you? Really? It's broken into you know your life experience, your work experience, your strengths, and your spiritual gifts, like those four on the stool. And just getting people curious about that. Like people like if I were to met you and you know, you weren't a believer, I'd be like, Hey, hey, did you know that like you have some you have some serious strengths in some areas? And like, have you ever been curious about like what you could do with those or like you know, where you might be able to apply them? And you know, if they're not, if they're not, if they're not Christian and they don't believe in God, then you start, you know, you can take it a little step farther and be like, how do you think you got that? Like, do you think not everybody has that? You're you're you're uniquely and fearfully created, wonderfully made, and starting to just weave in some stuff with you know, maybe some um uh some of your coworkers like outside of work and then at work a bigger scale, like I'd say like leading by example. Like I assume you can still pray at work, like I prayed for all my meals, you know, like setting that example of standard of like get people curious, like and then you were talking about earlier, like witnessing. I think that like too, like just being like a witness of like someone knows like everyone's always like, Oh man, like that guy, he would just seem so calm, or like you know, I know he's got a great wife and great kids, and maybe I'm not doing so great. Like, I wonder what he's doing that I'm not. Well, not to say that like if you're a Christian, you're gonna have like the all this perfect family life and all this stuff, but there's just the peace like in your heart, like when stuff when crap hits the fan, and you have like the peace, and like people will recognize that and be like, Well, I want that. And it's like then you'd be able to give that to them, dude.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

You're hitting on some really good stuff. I mean, a nobody could ever stop you from praying personally, yeah. Um, so just right then and there, you you're displaying that like I believe in something that I know that I put my trust in and my faith in, and by praying and not being afraid to show it, that's on full display. I also think that just by default, people are in conversation. You just mentioned it all the time. We're always in conversation. There's some there's stuff going on while we're at work, there's stuff going on in people's lives. Nobody can stop you from sharing how you get through it. It doesn't mean you need to say, like, hey, here's what you need to do, but you can also always turn it back and say, hey man, I've I listen, I'm going through it too. I work here too. Or hey, I've I've gone through it in the past. I mean, the thing that helped me the most is I lean into my faith. Like I know that I'm not in full control. Um, you know, I I trust what God says and I trust his promises, and I I lean into that. Then they might say, Really? What's that like? You you don't know what they're gonna say next, or they could say, Well, that's stupid, and you can be like, Well, you know, maybe maybe you think so, but it's really worked for me. If you're ever curious about it, let me know. It can be simple stuff, yeah, but it doesn't need to be this profound, you know, thing. Oh, yeah. It's it the simple is usually the thing that gets to people the best because it's easy to understand.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Oh, 100%. And I'd say another thing too, I learned um on my mission trip the power of testimony. Okay, now now that you said that, like that is like that's like pr very like that is like hands down. I've never I saw people give their life to Jesus, which I never really saw before. Like you always heard about it, or you see people in the church, you know, like it's great. But to see someone on the streets, like we're in Puerto Rico, and to see someone just like break down and like I want to give my life to Jesus, and it's like, oh man, like seeing that is like crazy mind-blowing. And it and happened a couple times, um, but I say majority of the time, it was like when someone would share what Jesus meant to them because there's no changing that, there's no denying that you can't say that that's not true when someone shares their testimony. And so I would definitely say like testimony. If you, if you like the conversations you have every day, if you have an opportunity to share your testimony with somebody, even if and another big thing too is like I learned one thing I learned on that trip too is like my testimony. I got I caught, I found, I found that I was in some areas of my life or in some areas of my testimony, I would try to maybe like bump up to buddy, what this is not, this is not right. You got do not do this because I learned fast. You know, I've never really done it before, but when I was talking to talking to these people um in the and having a translator in Spanish, I was trying to relate to them the most because I'm like, I really want them to accept the Lord. And they said that they're they had it maybe had a bad relationship with their dad. And I and I was I would throw in, like, well, I got a rocky relationship with my dad too. And I'm like, that's not true. I lied and I shouldn't have done that. But like that realization of like, I just thought my testimony wasn't that cool. That's where that came from. And realizing that that, like, man, like everyone else has such cool, cool testimonies, and my testimony is not that cool. Um, that is um it's Satan working, and again, I'm glad I caught it, and someone called me out on it and was like, hey, like, don't do that. Like, that's that's that's foolish. And I'm like, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

Man, that's such a good point because a lot of people think that you have to have this profound transformation, like a Saul the Paul moment. Oh, yeah. Well, part of your story is I grew up in a family who loved me, who loved God, and I'm a product of you know, a mother and a father and in a large family of six believers. And this is kind of the testimony of like I still had to go through the testing of my faith. I still had to go through the fire of what do I actually believe as I became an adult. What do I want to go live out? But this is what's true about if you go live in God's word, is like, why not have a loving father and a good mother and siblings who grow up loving the Lord? That's that's what's supposed to happen. My testimony is I'm a product of my parents' faith. Right. Like I think it's a fantastic testimony. That's what we're all aspiring to. Yeah. And hopefully, if like whoever's adopting these rules and and and principles and following the ways of Jesus, your kids have the same testimony as I do. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of my testimony. Is my mom and dad believed in Jesus and they did everything that they could to make sure that we knew him. And uh but now guess what? I have I'm the oldest of six kids. Everybody believes in Jesus and was raising their kids as believers. Like what a cool testimony. Yeah. Like that's what I want for my kids too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

And it's like I was just like, I would always just bought into the lie, and especially hearing everyone else on that trip. I'm like, whoa. Like there's some guys that are really cool. Like mine's just not that cool at all. And that's like, what a I was I was deceived. And you know, it's like like you were saying, like, what what better testimony um than anyone's, obviously. But like to have one that's like, yeah, like God's been faithful my life, and like, and I'm still I'm still showing up, you know. So I would definitely encourage like anybody, like the power of your testimony is so um it's uh no one can deny that. And to it to have the opportunity to share that with somebody, let it riff. Like that'll change someone's life. Like just hearing that. I can't deny that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

Well, I think it's cool, man, because uh just just watching, you know, since I've come to know you, just the bold steps that you've taken, the stuff that you're doing. I mean, whether it's putting it out there on the website with your team, with your dad, I mean, just you you're not backing down. I feel like it's just growing, and I feel like it's just becoming even more of a part of you. So thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks for being a good example uh for others and doing everything that you're doing. And um, I'll put links to uh, you know, obviously your bio and everything that you guys are doing with inviro uh and all the show notes. But yeah, dude, I appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

Yeah, this is super fun. I'm looking forward to this. And I oh I had the thing, I was like, man, I get coming into this, uh, you know, I was like, man, I'm just not old enough. You know, I can't be telling anybody, like, I don't really have that much wisdom to share. And then I was like, well, I'll make sure that I mentioned Mark like 10 years we can redo this podcast or whatever, and then we'll talk and we'll see if you know, see if I see if I got anything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Dude, the the hard part is in 10 years you're not even gonna be as old as I am. In 10 years, you'll be 36. Let's see. Uh I'll be 52, buddy. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

So it'll be right over the hill. Yeah, you'll be prime. You'll and you'll still be learning. Like, I think that I'll be in my prime, man. My hairline will be a little bit higher again.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:26

And uh who knows what I'll be looking like.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:27

But but and that's what we were talking about with one of you, one of the guys before, too, just like not like never stop learning. Like, uh the other thing too, like getting guys interested. Like, if somebody's at work and you want like if just be willing to learn. And like that's one of one of the biggest things I look for is employees. Like, can you show up on time? Do you love Jesus? If not, I'll make you love Jesus. And then number three, like, are you willing to learn? Are you teachable and malleable? Like, because I like like you're saying, like, yeah, 50 years, like when I'm 50, I know I'm still gonna be, like, at least I hope I'm still gonna be learning and studying and all this stuff. And it's like, if you really think about it, we're gonna be doing that until we die. So we're all the way all the way. So that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

We're never we're we'll never get there, but hopefully we just keep getting closer. Right, right. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you for doing it. Loved our time together. Yeah. If you guys want access to more resources, whether it's books, the newsletter, or prior episodes, you can get it at markgreaves.com. But all right, we're over and out. Over and out. Thanks, Mark. Yeah, man.